21-Day Vegan Kickstart

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Forums: Main Kickstart Forum: Conflicting Information
Created on: 02/13/14 09:14 PM Views: 2435 Replies: 18
Conflicting Information
Posted Thursday, February 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Just about the time I get into the swing of vegan eating, I hear a well respected doctor talk about NOT eating vegetarian/vegan to lose weight. Their info claims that when we replace meat with carbs, we defeat our purpose - especially when low fat meat products help with weight loss. No, this statement was not from an Atkins hype doctor.

So?

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Thursday, February 13, 2014 at 10:44 PM

Many people (yes, doctors are people too) can have illadvised preconceived misconceptions about the health value of certain foods. Basically, weight loss occurs when we burn more calories than we take in. How healthfully we do that depends on what we eat. Think of it this way, at its most basic, protien and carbohydrates have 4 calories while fats have 7 calories. Looking at it that way, which food would be more beneficial to weight loss? And yes, protein is widely available in plant foods!

Jen

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Friday, February 14, 2014 at 4:14 AM

Are you fat? What kinds of diets have you been on during your lifetime? Have you ever been vegan before?

Take your time to think and get informed and try the vegan diet. It is the only way you will know what is best for you.

In addition, read "The China Study" and "Whole" in addition to the entire collection of Dr. Neal Barnard's books. You can also listen to these doctors on youtube as well as their colleague, Dr. John McDougall who has himself written dozen of books available on Amazon.com.

You won't live long enough learn everything, so do read what the best has learned thus far.

Edited 02/14/14 4:21 AM
RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Friday, February 14, 2014 at 6:56 AM

I think there there are two ways to respond to any body's advice about health:

1. What does the overwhelming amount of evidence (research) show? This helps filter out opinion and bias about nutrition.

2. What works for you?

I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't see the research all day every day showing how effective low-fat, vegan diets can be for health, both for prevention and treatment. I'm determined everyone be aware and try it for themselves!

Susan Levin, MS, RD
PCRM Director of Nutrition Education

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Friday, February 14, 2014 at 12:43 PM

It depends - are you replacing meat with processed carbs (like white flour) or are you replacing meat with things like fruit and veggies and legumes (which all have carbs)? It is possible to be an unhealthy veg*n by using lots of faux products and highly processed things.

--DebR

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Saturday, February 15, 2014 at 3:26 AM

Oh, goodness I can relate to this! I am always being told even, to be vegetarian is not wise, this is coming from so many people on the low-carb diets like Atkins or paleo. But they seem to really eat a lot of meat, and we cannot do that. Nor do we want to! I think it is possible to be a vegan, and not over-do it on the carbs. As long as we stick to the healthy grains - brown/wild rice, and many vegetables, i think even the ones that are quite sweet like carrot and beets, they will never make us fat. =)

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Saturday, February 15, 2014 at 10:33 PM

Whimzee wrote:

Just about the time I get into the swing of vegan eating, I hear a well respected doctor talk about NOT eating vegetarian/vegan to lose weight. Their info claims that when we replace meat with carbs, we defeat our purpose - especially when low fat meat products help with weight loss. No, this statement was not from an Atkins hype doctor.

So?


In days gone by I probably would've blaimed this doctor's advice on the shortcomings of the medical education system. Like the fact that doctors only spend two weeks of their 8 year training learning about nutrition. But nowadays the health benefits of the Kickstart type diet are so well known and so well evidenced, it's getting to the point where you'd almost have to be blind not to accept them.

Perhaps that is actually the problem here. Perhaps this doctor's eyesight just isn't that great. Why not check with him and get back to us.

Wash your back

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Sunday, February 16, 2014 at 11:28 AM

Actually, this statement was made by Dr. Oz of which Dr. Bernard has been on his show many times. Oz is not only a respected heart surgeon but also has a team of experts who advise him of the latest findings. But I also find that a lot of the info he dishes out conflicts with his prior information.

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Sunday, February 16, 2014 at 6:34 PM

Whimzee wrote:

Actually, this statement was made by Dr. Oz of which Dr. Bernard has been on his show many times. Oz is not only a respected heart surgeon but also has a team of experts who advise him of the latest findings. But I also find that a lot of the info he dishes out conflicts with his prior information.

Well this is embarrassing because not only do I have the greatest respect for Dr Oz, I'm actually also good friends with him. And if I'd known that's who we were talking about I certainly wouldn't've posted what I posted.

With regard to your comment about his "conflicting information", I think what you're seeing is simply a manifestation of his objectivity and sense of balance. His desire to put forward both sides of the argument.

Obviously there's a fine line between putting forward both sides of the argument and having a kind of Jeckyll and Hyde personality disorder, but as someone who's been friends with Dr Oz for many years I can assure you that there's a side to him that treads that line exceedingly well. You just don't often get to see that side of him when he's on the show.

My advice to you is really to try and focus on the show's strengths and ignore all the minor quirks and all the stupid rumours that are currently circulating about Dr Oz. Like the rumour that he's become so conflicted that he often refers his patients to himself for a second opinion. That's actually a bad example because it's semi-true. I've heard it with my own ears. But it's got nothing to do with being conflicted. It's simply a testament to the ambition he often expressed to me when he was starting out. The ambition to become a one-stop shop for people's medical needs. A one-stop shop that, innovatively enough, includes second opinions.

Whimsee, is this information helping at all ?

Wash your back

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Monday, February 17, 2014 at 7:14 PM

Kinda, sorta, Theodore! I believe Dr. Oz does a great job at "balance" on his show and I have the utmost respect for him! I get the feeling that he is truly trying to help people.

However, when he presents different subjects on his show, the general public gets the impression that he approves of the subject he's discussing. For instance, today's show was about Paleo Diets. If Dr. Oz said it's OK, everyone follows his advice!

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 7:01 AM

I think we should take anything Dr. Oz presents on his show with a grain of salt. It's a mixed bag. He is trying to entertain America with lots of health information everyday of the week, after all. It's hard to keep it "shocking."

Susan Levin, MS, RD
PCRM Director of Nutrition Education

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 4:48 PM

You guys can criticise all you like, but as someone who's been friends with Dr Oz for many years I can assure you that no-one is a harsher critic of Dr Oz than himself. No-one.

I even recall one instance where he wrote a much-needed rebuttal to one of his own blog entries. A week later, he came back with a rebuttal to his rebuttal. Then the week after, he wrote an extremely pertinent (albeit quite insulting) counter-comeback. It was the perfect example of an honest free-thinking leader thrashing out the issues for the benefit of his knowledge-hungry fans. Unfortunately the exchange that continued between Dr Oz as blog author and Dr Oz as commenter became so heated that the moderators had to intervene and eventually ban him (as a commenter). So it turned out to be a somewhat bitter sweet affair, but still a very informative one, and one that really has to be seen to be believed. Ironically enough the moderators deleted the thread, so you can't see it.

Anyway, I guess my point is that criticising Dr Oz is really a futile and unnecessary exercise, because there isn't a criticism of Dr Oz on this earth that he hasn't already levelled against himself. Be it in his own name or under one of his recently created internet pseudonyms.

Wash your back

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Tuesday, February 18, 2014 at 7:10 PM

Theodore - Not criticizing - just saying. I think he does the general public a world of good and tries very hard to keep America informed.

I understand Lisa Oz is a vegetarian. Is Dr. Oz too? I know he loves Greek Yogurt and walnuts but what other things does he eat on a regular basis? He's always so full of energy!

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 at 8:07 PM

Whimzee wrote:

I understand Lisa Oz is a vegetarian. Is Dr. Oz too? I know he loves Greek Yogurt and walnuts but what other things does he eat on a regular basis? He's always so full of energy!

Yeah he's basically vegetarian. He very occasionally eats fish when he's out of the house, but only for social reasons. And only if the fish is one of the non-ambitious varieties. He's not exactly the most sentimental guy I know, but nothing pains him more than the thought of eating an ambitious fish.

Wash your back

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Friday, February 21, 2014 at 7:55 PM

He's baaack! Smile

Theodore, go straight to your room!

Whimzee - Theodore gets very hurt feelings if we don't take him seriously (because he's a very serious fellow, right, T?) , but honestly, he's pulling your leg.

If you want to watch interesting nutritional videos, check out the Youtubes of Dr. Joel Fuhrman doing his imitation of Julia Childs. Or is it a French chef? Hard to tell..

All we are saying is "Give Peas a Chance"

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Friday, February 21, 2014 at 9:49 PM

You been joshing us all this time Theodore? I'm crushed!!!

Thanks for the laugh, Mariberry. French Dr. Fuhrman was a hoot!

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Saturday, February 22, 2014 at 3:11 AM

From what I understand Dr Oz's wife eats vegan. Without knowing what it was that he said that was contradictory, it's hard to advise on whether he's actually back peddling or has found some new evidence that we might not be aware of. Perhaps he's not back peddling at all but is just worried about the many people who become vegan and then STILL live on processed foods.

Just last month he posted about going vegan and notes the pitfalls that many people who become vegan do that are either dangerous or not optimal. Personally, I avoid soy. It's one of the top two GMO product in the country and science goes back and forth (almost daily) as to whether it's safe to eat or not.

I've been eating vegan for two months and feel AMAZING! I eat some processed foods, though they are fewer and farther between than before by at least 80%. I make my own hummus, and no longer use canned beans. I try to keep about 90% of my food whole and unprocessed. I do eat pita chips and lentil chips that I don't make myself but almost everything else is homemade from real, fresh ingredients and organic. I sleep like a dog now and before I was lucky to even sleep.

I guess my question is: what did he say that was contradictory? That might help figure out what he was talking about.

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Saturday, February 22, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Well, for one thing, Dr. Oz doesn't seem to be in the carb loving group. Many times I've heard him say cut down on carb consumption (whether processed, refined or whole).

Then lately he's actually said that eating meat has the ability to help you lose weight. Both of these statements seem contradictory to a healthy vegan diet.

I wish Dr. Bernard would chime in with comments about these statements!

RE: Conflicting Information
Posted Sunday, February 23, 2014 at 5:41 AM

Mari

I've only got one word for you:

Howfriggindareyouquestionmyfriendshipwithdoctoroz.

Wash your back


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