Forums: September 2010 Kickstart Forum Archive: I need help
Created on: 12/12/10 05:56 PM Views: 6768 Replies: 21
Jan Joined: 04/14/13 Posts: 0	I need help Posted Sunday, December 12, 2010 at 5:56 PM Q1. How do the coffee lovers manage, when they turn vegan? (i) Give up coffee completely; (ii)Drink black coffee; (iii) Substitute cow milk with soya milk or other products; (iv) any other suggestions. Q2. I take fish oil tablets for Omega 3. Any substitutes to replace fish oil-based products? Thank you. Jan
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mollyhorn Joined: 03/03/10 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582	RE: I need help Posted Sunday, December 12, 2010 at 6:14 PM Hi Jan, I'll address the fish oil, because it's what I know most about. Jack Norris, RD, a very well-respected vegan dietitian, recommends DEVA vegan Omega-3 supplements, which are derived from algae. I purchase mine from Amazon using the "subscribe and save" feature, and have found them to be more affordable than fish oil supplements (and they smell better too!). http://www.amazon.com/Deva-Vegan-Vitamins-Dha-Algae/dp/B000V8BD4S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1292195785&sr=8-3 As far as coffee, I've had mine black for years, but I think most people just switched to plant milks, or other creamers. There are several creamers on the market that replicate the taste of cow-milk cream very well – or even better. Just watch out for fat and sugar content, if that is something you're concerned with. Molly Horn
	Edited 12/12/10 6:16 PM Quote | Send PM | Link | Top | Bottom
Jan Joined: 04/14/13 Posts: 0	RE: I need help Posted Sunday, December 12, 2010 at 6:37 PM Hi Molly: Thank you for your suggestions. I appreciate your help. Jan
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cch22 Joined: 09/08/10 Location: New York State Posts: 1000	RE: I need help Posted Sunday, December 12, 2010 at 6:49 PM Hi Jan, I used to add both sugar and milk to my coffee. I just decided to either drink it black or put soymilk in it. Recently I discoved that Walmart soymilk has sugar in it; so using that one makes it a little sweeter. I don't think i will be buying it again tho, because i try to avoid adding sugar. I only drink a couple of cups a day, so putting in unsweetened soy or even rice milk is fine. One thought I had was.. if something tastes so bad that i have to add something else to it, to make it taste good, do i really want it? I am considering switching to tea. cynthia
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Wild4Stars Joined: 12/27/09 Location: Florida Posts: 832	RE: I need help Posted Sunday, December 12, 2010 at 7:41 PM I only ever drank coffee black but gave it up about 3 years ago. I FINALLY found a green tea that I like and have been drinking it for the past year. I put ground flax seeds in my smoothies and sprinkle them on my salads for omega-3's. Sometimes I use Salba instead, also good for omega-3's. Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com
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mollyhorn Joined: 03/03/10 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582	RE: I need help Posted Sunday, December 12, 2010 at 7:54 PM cch22 wrote: One thought I had was.. if something tastes so bad that i have to add something else to it, to make it taste good, do i really want it? Oh wow, Cynthia... what a good point!!! I never thought of it that way. Molly Horn
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DrDons Joined: 01/11/10 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 17	RE: I need help Posted Sunday, December 12, 2010 at 8:17 PM They usually continue drinking coffee. Coffee is plant based. In moderation coffee appears to have no adverse effects on health. If you don't tolerate coffee you shouldn't drink it of course. You can add soy milk, almond milk, etc. to coffee. For sweeteners you can continue to use vegan sugar or agave to sweeten your coffee. Tea is an alternative which works well for many people around the world. Green tea has more antioxidants than black tea. The absorption of the antioxidants can be boosted by adding a little lemon juice to the tea. Omega 3 supplements are best obtained by using golden algae based supplements in vegan capsules (non gelatin capsules since gelatin is an animal product). There are several brands available. My wife and I use a product called Omega Zen by Nu Tru which we order online. Fish oil may contain omega 3's which the fish get from algae but it also comes with harmful animal oils and chemicals. Best to get the omega 3's directly from the original plant source. A recent study showed that patients consuming fish oil did show beneficial changes in their inflammatory blood markers which might be interpreted to show that the good effects of the Omega 3's in fish oil is balanced out by the bad stuff. Hope this is helpful. Have a happy holiday season. Don Forrester MD Don www
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theodore Joined: 09/16/10 Posts: 643	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 4:27 AM Molly As you know, we agree on everything. Everything except talking to doctors about our vegan diet, but I'm afraid this is another thing we're gonna have to add to our non-agreement list. Aside from anything else, I'm afraid I've never found Jack Norris to be a reliable source of information. I've frequently spotted ommissions and inconsistencies in the advice that he provides, and in general he seems to be INCREDIBLY biased towards taking supplements. For advice on these important matters, I myself always look to the legendary Jeff Novick RD, and of course to PCRM's own legendary dietician, Susan Levin. As Jeff Novick pointed out last week, there is simply no evidence that people living on a well-balanced wholefoods plant-based diet have any need for Omega 3 supplements. Best regards to all. Theodore Never make assumptions. You'll end up being an A**, and the UMP will TION you. -- Coach Smiley -- Fresh Prince of Bel Air
	Edited 12/21/10 4:22 AM Quote | Send PM | Link | Top | Bottom
Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 8:20 AM cch22 wrote: I am considering switching to tea. cynthia My favorite "pick me up" tea is Celestial Seasonings Bengal Spice tea. No caffeine, totally plant based (as far as I can tell from the label). One biggie I found, for me, is that caffeine causes odd blood sugar spikes. Did a little research and found that is a known issue for some diabetics. So, even green tea is out due to the caffeine. I can drink the Bengal Spice straight and it's got a nice 'wake up' kick (ginger and black pepper) but a bit of sweetness as well from cinnamon and vanilla. The 'base' is roasted chicory. --Deb R
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cch22 Joined: 09/08/10 Location: New York State Posts: 1000	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 8:37 AM Hi Deb, Thanks!! that tea does sound yummy. I was never empressed w/that brand. Doesn't seem like enough tea in the little bags. I really like the republic of tea and Stash. Since you mentioned tea.. i have to confess, i am a bit of a kitchen gadget collector. One of the times i decided to try tea, of course i tried loose leaf. Tea balls are terrible. I tried several different ways to steep tea. I found a hit that EVERY tea drinker should have. It is the absolute BEST gadget for tea. You can use whatever kind you like. Maybe you already have it. It is the perfect tea maker from Teavanna. BTW teavanna has some pretty good tea too. For any of you out there that know a tea drinker who doesn't have one, it makes a perfect christmas gift. It works like a charm. Some say it is a pain to clean, but it just works soooooo good. http://www.teavana.com/Tea-Products/Tea-Makers-Infusers/Teavana-Perfect-TeaMaker.axd?cm_sp=Content-_-newtotea-_-10004684 000 016
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 8:43 AM I agree that some of the flavors are a little on the weak side, but this one is good (of course, I just leave the teabag in the mug until I get to the bottom). That teavanna gadget sounds interesting but I drink most of my tea here at work - I bring my own tea in because they mostly have another brand that is way too weak (plus it's got the string tag stapled to the bag - Celestial Seasonings bags at least are just bag, no string or anything, so it can all go right into the compost bin). --Deb R
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Harmonicgogiberry Joined: 01/01/10 Posts: 47	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 10:40 AM I used to use both cream and sugar. When I gave those up I learned to enjoy one good black mug each morning.
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mollyhorn Joined: 03/03/10 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 10:41 AM Dang, y'all... Theodore, you are so right. I bow to your wisdom. Totally not kidding, either! Jeff Novick is a very, very smart man, and Norris does indeed rely a lot on supplements. His reasoning has always been (and mine, too) that they are "insurance" to compensate for a less-than-perfect diet. In my case, I don't eat enough leafy greens to get my daily recommended intake of Omega-3s, and therefore I've been taking a supplement to compensate. I know I should eat more greens, but the cost is prohibitive for me. Unfortunately, the vitamins are much cheaper than the vegetables. However, after your suggestions (I think?) in a previous thread to check out Michael Greger's work, I've ordered the 4-pack of his DVDs and am awaiting their arrival. I'm excited to learn a lot more about health and nutrition. I see that Novick also has a 4-pack of DVDs, though they are a bit more expensive. Perhaps something to put on my wish list. Only problem that I've found with Novick is that he seems to have abandoned his website updating. Newsletter updates stopped in 2008, blog in 2009... this makes me sad and a little suspicious. I follow him on Facebook, but he rarely posts. Do you know if he's got some other resources available? Re. tea: Whole leaf loose tea is always best if you're looking for antioxidant benefits, as the crumbly little bits used in teabags are most often older and usually the dregs left over from processing. If you're not concerned with antioxidants and only looking for taste, then teabags are absolutely fine! Deb, thank you for that reminder about caffeine and blood sugar – I had forgotten that and was considering adding caffeine back into my diet after a year w/o it, but I think I will not do that! Molly Horn
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 10:44 AM Harmonicgogiberry wrote: I used to use both cream and sugar. When I gave those up I learned to enjoy one good black mug each morning. I tried. First, I switched from sugar to agave. Then I started cutting back on the dairy (half and half usually). But, there came a point where I just didn't like it much. I 'switched' to making mocha - using the organic fair trade cocoa mix and coffee instead of hot water. That limited the amount of sugar and milk to what was in the cocoa mix (rather than random amounts I put in). But that was still milk and sugar going in. I'm still trying to find a non-dairy cocoa mix that doesn't use soy milk powder. I'll even make the mix myself if someone can point me to where I can get a non-soy milk powder to mix with cocoa powder. The only thing I've found so far is some online coconut milk powder drink mix (it's basically a smoothie mix instant shake type thing). --Deb R
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mommyof2nc Joined: 12/31/09 Location: North Carolina Posts: 172	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 2:00 PM Bugsmom wrote: cch22 wrote: I am considering switching to tea. cynthia My favorite "pick me up" tea is Celestial Seasonings Bengal Spice tea. No caffeine, totally plant based (as far as I can tell from the label). One biggie I found, for me, is that caffeine causes odd blood sugar spikes. Did a little research and found that is a known issue for some diabetics. So, even green tea is out due to the caffeine. I can drink the Bengal Spice straight and it's got a nice 'wake up' kick (ginger and black pepper) but a bit of sweetness as well from cinnamon and vanilla. The 'base' is roasted chicory. --Deb R That's my new favorite tea, too, Deb! I just discovered it a week ago and I'm hooked. It's sort of like a caffeine free chai tea if you add soy milk to it. Yum! If I have coffee, I just use a little light soy milk in it. I've found that's the best for me. I feel like soy creamer is kind of expensive and I tend to go through it faster than soy milk for some reason. Some soy milks have oil in them and if you use one of those, there will be drops of oil floating around on top of your coffee. It's not very appetizing to look at.
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 2:07 PM Hmm never tried adding a milk analog to it - I just like it straight up. I think I may still have a little vanilla almond milk here in the fridge. Might try that in my bengal spice and see how I like it. That'd be just enough boost to the texture I think - sometimes I just want something a little smoother (?) than straight tea. --Deb R
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theodore Joined: 09/16/10 Posts: 643	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 2:14 PM Mollyhorn, I think you're the greatest, let me tell you. And I reckon Jeff Novick would be real proud if he knew you were a fan. I take your point about convenience too. Actually, I've got some great news. Jeff Novick is the resident dietician on the McDougall internet forum. He answers questions, posts news updates, the whole shabang. And all for free. He just replied to someone about vitamin D. It was highly informative. He joined McDougall a couple of years ago and that's when he put his other projects on the backburner. I tell you honestly, for me, the 21 Day Kickstart forum is the greatest forum on the planet, but the McDougall forum's definitely next in line and it's good for filling in the quiet periods in-between Kickstarts. Theodore P.S. - Bugsmom, do you get Ecomil powdered plant milks out in the USA. Never make assumptions. You'll end up being an A**, and the UMP will TION you. -- Coach Smiley -- Fresh Prince of Bel Air
	Edited 12/13/10 2:50 PM Quote | Send PM | Link | Top | Bottom
Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 2:15 PM theodore wrote: Theodore P.S. - Bugsmom, do you get Ecomil powdered plant milks out in the USA. Never seen them but I can look. And of course there's always the Internet to track things down. Thanks for the tip --Deb R
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theodore Joined: 09/16/10 Posts: 643	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 2:23 PM Bugsmom wrote: theodore wrote: Theodore P.S. - Bugsmom, do you get Ecomil powdered plant milks out in the USA. Never seen them but I can look. And of course there's always the Internet to track things down. Thanks for the tip --Deb R You're welcome Bugsmom. Just curious though, why does it have to be in the powdered form ? Never make assumptions. You'll end up being an A**, and the UMP will TION you. -- Coach Smiley -- Fresh Prince of Bel Air
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072	RE: I need help Posted Monday, December 13, 2010 at 2:29 PM [quote="theodore--Deb R You're welcome Bugsmom. Just curious though, why does it have to be in the powdered form ?[/quote] I want to make myself some instant cocoa mix that I can just add hot water to here at work (rather than having to get out saucepans or microwave heat the almond milk then add the cocoa and such to it). Making instant cocoa mix is usually done with non-fat powdered milk, cocoa, and sugar. I can get good quality cocoa powder and vegan-safe sugar at our local co-op market (it's so cool having an entirely vegetarian grocery market nearby). The sticking point to date has been finding non-soy non-dairy milk powder. I've checked the Ecomil website and contacted them electronically to sort out the situation with regard to ordering/finding/purchasing their almond powder here in the US.
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