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| Forums: March 2010 Kickstart Forum Archive: McDougall vs. Fuhrman | |||
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| Mariberry
Joined: 01/02/10 Posts: 297 |
McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Thursday, April 8, 2010 at 10:54 PM Ok, you experts on these two doctors. How do they differ in philosophy? Their program? I borrowed Fuhrman's book from the library and have since bought three copies for family members. Dr. MacDougall's book is not available in our library so I haven't had a chance to read it. Any major differences? Similarities? All we are saying is "Give Peas a Chance" |
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Wild4Stars
 Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Friday, April 9, 2010 at 5:10 AM I know Fuhrman a lot better than I know McDougal but my take on it is that McDougal allows more grains, Fuhrman allows more fruit. Fuhrman, during the six week plan, which is geared to weight loss, only allows 1 cup of whole grains per day. However, you're allowed as much fruit as you want. Vegetables, you're suppose to go for 1 pound raw and one pound cooked! That's a lot of food! McDougal only allows 2 fruits per day, but you can eat a lot more grains (not sure if there's a limit). Both are very low in fat, both are far better than SAD, and I would think whichever one works best for you, whichever is easiest for you to stay on would be good for you. Hope that helps. I'm sure others will post their thoughts on the pros and cons. Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| aleta
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: Claremont, CA Posts: 153 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Friday, April 9, 2010 at 11:00 AM Thank you. I was wondering too. I have McDougall but not Fuhrman.This helps me too. aleta |
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| Mariberry
Joined: 01/02/10 Posts: 297 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Friday, April 9, 2010 at 10:21 PM I didn't spend much time on his "diet program" really. I was far more interested in his facts about what we eat and the myths surrounding our food. I'm sure I've read most of it before (I've read Dr. Barnard's books) but somehow, the info went into the ol' brain and was retained this time...! I have upped my fruit intake a bit since reading the book, but must eat more greens now! I enjoy a salad but he really wants us eating humungous amounts and I know I'm not "there" yet... All we are saying is "Give Peas a Chance" |
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mollyhorn
 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Saturday, April 10, 2010 at 1:37 AM I'm no expert on either one, but from what I can tell, it seems that McDougall is all about starches, while Fuhrman is all about fresh non-starchy vegetables, and silly terms like "nutritarian." I would put myself in the Fuhrman camp, if I had to choose, though I think PCRM does a pretty good job, too. McDougall's all-starch diet doesn't seem healthy to me, though I haven't read his book, only his website. However, I like http://blog.fatfreevegan.com/, which is a McDougall-endorsed site. Maybe "everything in moderation" is the best idea? I think a diet high in non-starch vegetables (greens), but with plenty of legumes, grains, some fruits and a moderate amount of starch and healthy fats seems best to me... balanced. There's my non-medically-trained two cents. Molly Horn |
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| Wild4Stars
Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Saturday, April 10, 2010 at 8:08 AM I basically follow Fuhrman's "Eat To Live" because I find it easy. I love veggies of all kinds and I just like that I never feel hungry. I sometimes eat more grains than he allows, I love pasta and have switched to whole wheat. I sometimes eat meat substitutes. I've really learned to like the Gardein products and they're easy because my omnivore husband likes them too. Whatever Dr's name you put on it, if you eat a low fat, vegan diet, limit your processed foods and focus on fresh whole food, I think you are doing your body good. McDougal, Ornish, Fuhrman, Barnard all have good plans. Pick one, tailor it to your needs and you'll be the healthiest person you know!! To borrow from Molly - there's my non-medically-trained two cents. Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| aleta
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: Claremont, CA Posts: 153 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Saturday, April 10, 2010 at 12:24 PM Love these "non medical two cents". It is hard when you try and do a good thing for your body. You hear or read all kinds of stuff. And then to pick the one that is best for you is all too much sometimes. I try and keep telling myself that the "diet industry" is very big. (can't remember the millions we (America) spend on it each year.) aleta |
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| Wild4Stars
Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Saturday, April 10, 2010 at 12:38 PM Another aspect of this whole discussion is listening to your own body. Even before I went vegetarian or vegan, milk products made me feel sick. I learned pretty young not to eat cheese if I wanted to feel good. Eating sweets make me sleepy. Something one person eats everyday with no problem, someone else may not be able to tolerate. That's why I said in an earlier post to "tailor it to your needs." Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| jvollmer
Joined: 04/09/10 Posts: 2 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Sunday, April 11, 2010 at 8:06 PM I completely agree that everything should be eaten in moderation. Sometimes its hard to eat right when you hear one person say one thing and someone else say another. It seems everything is bad or good for you. So for me moderation is key....and a lot less confusing! |
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| TexGal
Joined: 02/25/10 Location: Texas Posts: 111 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Monday, April 12, 2010 at 9:22 AM Just want to add one thing about McDougall's plan -- it's not really "all starch" as someone described it. He does emphasize having whole natural starches as the main dish (much like most of us used to use meat) but then plenty of vegetables and some fruits. He also says to use zero or minimal added fat in cooking, as dressings, etc. I think the "new 4 food groups" plan of PCRM is not much different, but McDougall is probably stricter on avoiding fats and processed foods. As others have said, all of these variations of a healthy plan are so much better than a "normal" SAD diet that any minor differences are probably not really significant unless you have a specific health condition that you need to address with your diet. Hope everyone is continuing to do well with healthy eating on whichever plan you choose to follow. |
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| essie
Joined: 02/26/10 Posts: 163 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Monday, April 12, 2010 at 3:52 PM Yeah, the plans are fairly similar, except Fuhrman says "the salad is the main dish" and MacDougall says "starch-based diet." Fuhrman's plan(s) are focused on nutrient density, which means he'd prefer you eat more greens and nonstarchy vegetables than starchy vegetables and grains. But all of that stuff is "allowed." He also allows more fat than either MacDougall or PCRM, but only from whole foods like nuts/seeds/avocados. He doesn't like oils. And it's still a low-fat plan. Unlike PCRM/Barnard he does offer a nonvegan version of the plan--no dairy or eggs at all, but 1 serving of meat/fish a week. That's very underemphasized though, and i think it's about appeasing people who just won't consider going purely vegan. I think most people who follow Eat to Live/Eat for Health eat vegan eventually, if not from the beginning, as it's the "phase 4" highest nutrient style. Since i tended to *overeat* on starches like pasta and gain weight when I do that, the Fuhrman style works better for me. He also has a limit set for sodium (which also makes me gain, as well as being a risk factor for high BP and stomach cancer), which I don't think MacDougall really addresses, or at least not in the book I have. (PCRM recipes have kind of a lot sometimes--I cut it.) I have both of the doctors' books, and Dr. Barnard's/PCRM's too. I know a lot of people who combine the approaches and many of the recipes would be totally fine for any of these. |
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| Wild4Stars
Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Monday, April 12, 2010 at 4:12 PM Essie nailed it! I like Fuhrman best because I am a veggie lover. Starches tend to set me on a path to over eating. I will admit I don't stick strictly to his sodium restrictions. Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| mollyhorn
Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Tuesday, April 13, 2010 at 12:01 AM Dang, Essie - you're always right on target! Salt is a tough one for me. I use way too much. I didn't know it could cause stomach cancer, though. That gives me pause. I just purchased "Eat to Live" yesterday and plan to read it very soon, so I'm sure I'll learn a lot. I can't wait! Molly Horn |
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| uniquebuys
Joined: 01/07/10 Posts: 69 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Wednesday, April 14, 2010 at 10:07 PM I enjoyed all the comments on this thread. I learn so much every day from your comments. I have been a fan of Barnard's way, and passed out a few of his books and now I am reading McDougall's book, Digestion Tune Up and watching his DVD series with his wife. Mary McDougall has some great ideas in her DVD presentation on recipes. ...sounds like it's time to pick up Fuhrman's information, too. EJ |
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| essie
Joined: 02/26/10 Posts: 163 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Thursday, April 15, 2010 at 12:26 PM I know there's some competition, but since there are SO FEW doctors actually touting the benefits of a plant-based low-fat diet, I say the more the merrier. I have learned a lot from all three and am grateful to all of them for their work. There's another movie coming out in the vein of Food Inc. and Processed People, called Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead, which features Dr. Fuhrman, who helps the main character get his booty in gear. Here's the link: http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/ I sure hope public libraries pick these things up. |
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| Bluesgyrl
Joined: 01/06/10 Posts: 159 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Sunday, April 18, 2010 at 11:59 PM Are there any of these doctors and their plans that don't require you to buy their products in order to participate in their program? I mean if you look at Dr. Fuhrmans (Sp?) web site and the sample receipes many of them call for the use of one of his products as ingredients. I have not read any of their books. However, since joining Kickstart and veganism in January I have olny lost a few pounds and need to loose more. Im not sure which avenue to go. I have considered going back to weight watchers only as a vegan but Im not sure if that is a better alternative than one of these doctors. At least with Weight Watchers you can eat whatever products you like without having to buy theirs. Please any advice would be helpful. |
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| Wild4Stars
Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Monday, April 19, 2010 at 7:30 AM I have been on Dr Fuhrman's "Eat To Live" plan for quite some time and do not buy his products. If you buy the book, there are lots of menus and recipes that do not involve any of his products. I eat mostly fresh and steamed veggies, beans, lots of fruit and some whole grains. I stay away from processed foods as much as possible. I can't speak for McDougal. I have read some of his books, but mostly stick to the "Eat To Live" plan. Ornish, I don't really know of any products he sells. His plan is one that my husband's cardiologist suggested to him. All are basically very low fat vegetarian or vegan which is a diet that can be followed without buying any special products. In fact, I believe that the closer we stick to nature, the better. Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| Jasmine
Joined: 03/02/10 Posts: 35 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Monday, April 19, 2010 at 11:20 AM I just read this info - I am using Dr. Neal Barnard's book and frankly don't know a thing about the others but whatever works for the individual is what you should use. I like Dr. Barnard's because there are absolutely no limits set - just eat everything as much as you want to not be hungry except meat/fish/chicken and any of the biproducts - milk and eggs. Of course, he suggest a balanced approach but I don't really think about balance per meal. It works for me obviously and then of course if you start to stop losing weight you adjust. The weeks I eat two tons of pasta I don't lose as much as when I center on vegs for example. Today I am trying Barley for the first time. I brought a cup of it for my lunch w/a cucumber, carrots and an apple. Cheers to all! |
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| TexGal
Joined: 02/25/10 Location: Texas Posts: 111 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Monday, April 19, 2010 at 1:34 PM Dr. McDougall's website (www.drmcdougall.com) has TONS of free information, including menus and recipes. He does sell books, videos, and some food products, but there is absolutely no need to buy any of them unless or until you decide you want to. I like his site for the info, but I have not followed his plan exactly. I am not really on any particular plan, but am probably closest to the PCRM 4 food group plan. That site also has lots of free info. |
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| essie
Joined: 02/26/10 Posts: 163 |
RE: McDougall vs. Fuhrman Posted Monday, April 19, 2010 at 1:52 PM I'm like Wild Stars--I don't buy any of the Fuhrman products. They aren't necessary (which he says himself). He basically offers them so people who want them can find them easily. Many of them can also be found elsewhere for less, like the flavored vinegars. They are by Cuisine Perel and you can get them on Amazon, etc. I just buy flavored vinegars at my grocery store. I do buy the books though, and I actually have found the member center to be super helpful. You can ask questions directly of the doctors, with specific-to-you recommendations. The other members are super helpful too. It really just depends on what works for you! You can find pretty much all of these books (Barnard/PCRM, MacDougall, Fuhrman) at libraries or in used bookstores. There's no need to go broke trying to get healthy!!! |
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