21-Day Vegan Kickstart

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Forums: September 2011 Kickstart Forum: HDL
Created on: 10/24/11 10:55 PM Views: 1451 Replies: 9
HDL
Posted Monday, October 24, 2011 at 10:55 PM

Does anyone know how to bring HDL up? Mine was never high enough (38 at the highest) and its steadily gone down over the past year. My Labs today at the Dr showed HDL at 31!!! I have lost 60 lbs this year and still going. I've gone from ZERO exercise to 60-90 minutes of water aerobics 5-6 days a week. Most of this is toning and I have surely built up some muscle tone all over, but can't do aerobics to get the heart rate up due to needing 2 knee replacements. One will be in the middle of Dec or Jan.

My husband was taking Niacin and it helped, but at his last Dr appt he was told to stop taking it because the component of the HDL that it raises had nothing to do with avoiding a heart attack.

I'm stumped. I was told that weight loss would increase the HDL. I was told that exercise would increase the HDL. No luck on either of those. My diet is low fat now and before I was eating a higher fat, but from "good fats" and it was going up, not down. Any connection I wonder.

I'd appreciate any ideas as to how to increase HDL. After the first 3 months of eating vegan EXCEPT for that one Greek yogurt daily, my LDL only dropped from 109 to 104. It was now back to 110 today. I did try to eat some fish and ground beef a couple of weeks (2x's a week) to see what would happen. Guess I found out. I'm shocked though that it didn't drop more when I cut out all meat and all dairy and eggs except for that yogurt.

The good news is that after losing 60 lbs now my A1C went from 6.0 to 5.7 to 5.2 today and I am off one of my Metformin pills. I now only take one 500 mg pill once a day instead of twice. YEAH!! That certainly is going in the right direction.

Hope everyone is doing well. Can't wait for the next kickstart. I am going to do complete VEGAN for the next 3 months and see how my bloodwork is at that time.

Dee

RE: HDL
Posted Tuesday, October 25, 2011 at 6:14 AM

I'm going to repost something I posted earlier:

A couple of thoughts come to mind:

1. Dr. Ornish said you don't need as many garbage trucks (HDL) if you don't have as much garbage (LDL). I think it's worth considering the ratio rather than hoping for higher HDLs, especially if your LDL is low.

2. Something that affects cholesterol levels more than dietary cholesterol is saturated fat. Watch those fats - even from plant sources - especially if you are working on your blood lipids. A poster made a good point above: when you quit your lipid lowering meds, your values are going to rise.

Then in response to what is a good ratio...

A good ratio would be less than 4:1, total cholesterol to HDL. So if my total is 150 and my HDL is 40, that's really good as it equals 3.75:1, although there would be a warning on that reading that my HDL is low.

Most research will be more concerned with my total anway. In the Framingham Study, the study to pick up on the connection between cholesterol and heart disease AND is ongoing after decades, people who kept their total below 150 were "heart attack proof."

Let me know if that helps. I like your plan to check your next blood labs after 3 months of vegan. Remember the fats too.

Susan Levin, MS, RD
PCRM Director of Nutrition Education

RE: HDL
Posted Tuesday, October 25, 2011 at 8:20 AM

Also, keep in mind that there is a genetic pre-disposition component involved. I know someone who could live on water and lettuce and still have a totally out of whack cholesterol profile (high total, high LDL, low HDL) - his sister has it, his dad had it, his grandpa had it...

My hubby's cholesterol has improved over time but it's still not great and likely won't ever be great. Mine, on the other hand, has always been okay to good and is really good now (my HDL and LDL are both in the low to mid 70s). My dad is the same.

This is not to say stop doing all the good stuff you're doing but rather don't beat yourself up when things don't change as much as you thought they should. There are some things that aren't changeable, so do all that you can to minimize the risks from the things you can't change.

--Deb R

RE: HDL
Posted Tuesday, October 25, 2011 at 5:36 PM

Thank you for the replies, yes it does help! Smile I have never been on cholesterol lowering meds as yet. Even with an LDL of 110 the Dr wants to put me on, but I'm trying to do what I can to lower it myself.

I looked on my Labs and the total Cholesterol is 171 with LDL at 110 and HDL at 31. Chol/Hdl ratio is 5.52 (range is 3.5-5.0) so if I can get the ratio down a bit more I should be able to avoid meds. The diabetes (type 2) is why the Dr wants it lower, and under 70 for the LDL.

What types of plant foods are high in saturated fats? I thought just by switching to plant we were automatically lowering saturated fats and cholesterol. I use only olive oil for oil and do eat a low fat diet.

I suppose I could be fighting a losing battle if the hereditary factor is a big part of this. I just never thought of LDL at 110 as being high. Since LDL and HDL numbers don't add up to 171 there must be another component of cholesterol included, perhaps not as troublesome though.

Please let me know if there is a list of any kind that shows the plant food lowest in sat fat.

Thanks for "listening."

Dee

BTW Triglycerides were 152. Range is 30-150 so that should be coming down too I hope, although its not really bad.

Edited 10/25/11 5:37 PM
RE: HDL
Posted Wednesday, October 26, 2011 at 7:06 AM

sparkledee wrote:

Thank you for the replies, yes it does help! Smile I have never been on cholesterol lowering meds as yet. Even with an LDL of 110 the Dr wants to put me on, but I'm trying to do what I can to lower it myself.

I looked on my Labs and the total Cholesterol is 171 with LDL at 110 and HDL at 31. Chol/Hdl ratio is 5.52 (range is 3.5-5.0) so if I can get the ratio down a bit more I should be able to avoid meds. The diabetes (type 2) is why the Dr wants it lower, and under 70 for the LDL.

What types of plant foods are high in saturated fats? I thought just by switching to plant we were automatically lowering saturated fats and cholesterol. I use only olive oil for oil and do eat a low fat diet.

I suppose I could be fighting a losing battle if the hereditary factor is a big part of this. I just never thought of LDL at 110 as being high. Since LDL and HDL numbers don't add up to 171 there must be another component of cholesterol included, perhaps not as troublesome though.

Please let me know if there is a list of any kind that shows the plant food lowest in sat fat.

Thanks for "listening."

Dee

BTW Triglycerides were 152. Range is 30-150 so that should be coming down too I hope, although its not really bad.

Total chol is a formula composed of hdl, ldl, triglycerides and a couple other components in a weighted formula (so it's not just added all together, it's some percentage hdl plus some percentage ldl and so on - it's possible to google to find it but it's really not worth the effort to calculate it yourself; suffice to say that if ldl and such are higher than they need to be, that's enough). My doctor generally ignores my total cholesterol number because my hdl runs high and throws the calculation out of whack - the ratio, though, is good and the numbers individually are good. We've got a 'deal' - as long as my hdl is over 50 and my ldl is under 100, no cholesterol meds despite that being SOP for type 2 diabetes.

As far as fat, be careful to watch for hidden fats if you're eating any kind of processed food, any food you didn't make yourself. Particularly ugly are the partially hydrogenated fats that live in all sorts of things like bread, nut butters, margarine, etc. And, one of the major 'tenets' in the kickstart is to keep ALL fat to at or under 10% of calories. So, for the 'typical' 2000 calories per day (That's what the RDA values are based on) that'd be 200 calories or about 22 grams of fat total. For example, that olive oil is 40 calories per tsp, all of which is fat. Which means that's 40/200 or 20% of the total fat per day, assuming that you're eating 2000 calories per day. One tsp in your salad at lunch and one tsp in your cooking at dinner is almost half the day's allocation of fat.

And, yes, there's a hereditary component BUT that does NOT mean to just give up. If your body does produce extra cholesterol, you don't want to go adding to that if you don't have to.

--Deb R

RE: HDL
Posted Wednesday, October 26, 2011 at 8:08 AM

And bear in mind that most plant foods are around 7/8/9 per cent fat already. Even things like carrots and broccoli. So 2 tablespoons of olive oil would probably push you over the 10% threshold even if you just ate carrots for the rest of the day.

Never make assumptions. You'll end up being an A**, and the UMP will TION you. -- Coach Smiley -- Fresh Prince of Bel Air

RE: HDL
Posted Wednesday, October 26, 2011 at 8:19 AM

theodore wrote:

And bear in mind that most plant foods are around 7/8/9 per cent fat already. Even things like carrots and broccoli. So 2 tablespoons of olive oil would probably push you over the 10% threshold even if you just ate carrots for the rest of the day.

1 average carrot is 30 cal (approx), 2 cal from fat. 1 cup chopped raw broccoli 30 cal, 3 from fat. So individually that would be about 10% (3/30 = 1/10 = 10%) It's not saturated or trans fat but it is still fat. If you then saute that carrot and the broccoli in that 1 tsp of olive oil you've got 100 calories total and 46 calories from fat - that's close to 50%. If you add a cup of rice, some onion, garlic, and soy sauce you've got a stir fry (yum!) - and a total of about 340 calories with 61 of those calories from fat which is about 17%. If, however, you saute up everything in a bit of water or homemade (no fat used) vegetable stock instead of oil, you change that to 300 calories and 21 from fat which puts it down to about 6% - 7% of calories from fat.

--Deb R

RE: HDL
Posted Wednesday, October 26, 2011 at 8:20 AM

Most of the plant based diets encourage NO ADDED PROCESSED oils. In other words eating corn is fine, no corn oil. Eating coconut is fine, no coconut oil, peanuts ok, peanut oil not. It's just another processed food that all the nutritional value has been removed and all you are left with is empty fat calories. And it's not good for your body.

Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com

RE: HDL
Posted Thursday, October 27, 2011 at 2:59 PM

Thanks everyone for all the helpful tips and information. That FAT is lurking everywhere, isn't it?! Wink

I was surprised to see your calculations Deb. Very, very helpful! I am going to write down my food for the next few days then look it over. I can see that I'm probably NOT eating as low fat as I thought. I do have 1-2 TBL of nuts daily in addition to 1-2 tsp of extra virgin olive oil. I also add a few olives here and there to salads, etc. It does add up! I usually cook with no oil though so I thought I'd be ok by adding it in a more healthful way.

Have a good day everyone!

Edited 10/27/11 3:00 PM
RE: HDL
Posted Thursday, October 27, 2011 at 3:37 PM

sparkledee wrote:

Thanks everyone for all the helpful tips and information. That FAT is lurking everywhere, isn't it?! Wink

I was surprised to see your calculations Deb. Very, very helpful! I am going to write down my food for the next few days then look it over. I can see that I'm probably NOT eating as low fat as I thought. I do have 1-2 TBL of nuts daily in addition to 1-2 tsp of extra virgin olive oil. I also add a few olives here and there to salads, etc. It does add up! I usually cook with no oil though so I thought I'd be ok by adding it in a more healthful way.

Have a good day everyone!

Keeping a food log for a week or so is a really good idea. Way back when, I had a spreadsheet that was set up to calculate all sorts of things - daily total calories, carbs, fat, %fat from calories, etc. Then I had it set so that if the "total" cell in the sheet was under a certain value the cell turned yellow, if it was over a certain value, it turned red and if it was right in the target zone, it turned green. That way, all I had to do was glance and know what was where - too few calories, too much fat, whatever (hubby has taught me a few Excel tricks over the years Smile )

--Deb R


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