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| Forums: September 2010 Kickstart Forum Archive: soy??? | |||
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cch22
 Location: New York State Posts: 1000 |
soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 8:30 AM I notice some people have chosen to stay away from soy for one reason or another... anyway.. he chooses to eat meat from a local farm.. where he knows what the animal is fed, is left in pasture, and killed as humanely as possible before being cut up... ethical treatment of animals he calls it.. ok..his choice.. my question comes in...he also said he chooses not to eat soy because of the pesticides used to produce the soybeans.. also that tofu is heavyily processed...so he stays away from that as well. i consider this person to be well read and very intelligent.... so can someone tell me the straight skinny pros and cons of soy.. then i will decide for myself weather to include it and how much i should eat. |
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| Susan Levin
Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1191 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 9:17 AM I don't think I would call tofu heavily processed. It's something you could make in your home with soybeans and water (aka soymilk) and a coagulant. I saw people making at all the time when I lived in China, where people have been making and eating tofu for thousands of years. Consuming soy in the form of tofu, miso, bean, soymilk, and tempeh, does not show any evidence of increasing risk for chronic disease. It actually shows numerous protective effects. Where the research shows harm is with processed soy foods such as soy protein isolates extracted from the whole soy bean and then put in powders and pills for research purposes. Even in that unnatural state, the research is mixed. More here: http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/soy_health.html. Susan Levin, MS, RD |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 9:36 AM Soy is also one of the most GMO crops in US agriculture (in other countries, it's a different story). As was mentioned, soy is really a mixed bag. I have a negative endocrine reaction to soy in any kind of quantity (like 1/2 cup per day of soymilk even). A friend of ours is clinically allergic (anaphylaxis potentially). I know someone who is a breast cancer survivor and she was told specifically to avoid soy because of the phytoestrogens. On the other hand, I know folks who eat soy regularly and are just fine. For us, we avoid soy and are weaning the remaining few items out of our kitchen (the stuff that has soy lecithin - I think we've got less than a dozen items with that as an ingredient and decreasing). --Deb |
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| theodore
Joined: 09/16/10 Posts: 643 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 9:58 AM Listen, I'm not an actor, let alone a medical actor, but I can assure you that soy is perfectly safe to eat. I think maybe the healthiest way to eat it is the way Chinese and Japanese people eat it. They use it more subtly than we do. Plus, their soy products are made using traditional methods over long periods of time, whereas in the West soy products are often processed industrially and very quickly. Why not point out to your friend that even the most "natural" meat has to be carefully processed in order for it not to do him any IMMEDIATE damage. The longterm damage being unavoidable because it still contains saturated fat no matter how carefully or minimally processed it is and no matter how he cooks it. My 2 pence (3.1 cents) worth. Never make assumptions. You'll end up being an A**, and the UMP will TION you. -- Coach Smiley -- Fresh Prince of Bel Air |
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| theodore
Joined: 09/16/10 Posts: 643 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 10:46 AM Oops, didn't notice Susan's reply when I posted. She already covered the issues, and much better too. Never make assumptions. You'll end up being an A**, and the UMP will TION you. -- Coach Smiley -- Fresh Prince of Bel Air |
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 11:50 AM What about kidney stones? My boyfriend has a history with that and I've been reading about the oxalates in tofu possibly aggravating this condition. I feel guilty about making him dishes with tofu ... it wasn't easy getting him to go vegan (he did it for me, and, because he's seen footage and I implored him to read up on the subject so he knows veganism is the right thing to do for ethical, health and environmental reasons). I guess I'll ask him if he knows whether his stones are oxalate or urate (read that in an article). He loves my tofu "egg" salad, faux tofu "chicken" salad, vegan lasagna, etc. I do too. What to do? Susan, is there a legitimate worry about tofu in regards to kidney stones? "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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mollyhorn
 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 6:47 PM This is the best info I've found on oxalates: Personally, I love soy, tofu, tempeh, etc., and eat it frequently. And I even have a thyroid condition! I spoke with my endocrinologist about it, and he said there's nothing to worry about in regards to soy. (In effect, "unless you're injecting it straight into your thyroid, you're fine.") I don't love the GMO-aspect, and I hate Monsanto and the like, but I accept that this is the current state of agriculture. I'm not going to eliminate a healthy and nutritious plant food from my diet just because of that. However, I do buy organic when I can find it. I try to avoid most of the "isolated soy protein" and that type of thing, though they are becoming more and more common in processed food. One more reason to avoid processed food! Molly Horn |
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Wild4Stars
 Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 7:09 PM I don't avoid soy, I don't over-eat soy. That said, soy is one of the things that when I do eat it, I make sure it is organic. I don't want to eat GMO soy. There is a lot of mixed information out there about soy. There is mixed information about dairy, and fish, and supplements and water and - and - and . . . . . I think we have to learn to listen to our intuition and learn to listen to our bodies. It makes sense to me that people have been eating soy for thousands of years. It also makes sense to me that a balanced diet is not going to be overloaded with soy. My intuition tells me that I don't want to eat soybeans that have been genetically altered to live through a saturation of Round-Up. AND there are other beans that enjoy much of the same nutritional benefit as soy. Don't limit yourself to soy because it gets so much publicity. Just my 2 cents. Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| DianeJ
Joined: 01/01/10 Posts: 134 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 7:20 PM Susan and Molly said it best! There is soy, and then there is soy. Tofu, tempeh, edamame, etc are some of the best proteins you can eat; soy protein isolate not good, actually a by-product found in many processed foods, but even then pick the healthiest, i.e. veggie burger, and on occasion okay. |
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 8:08 PM Are there any soy products out there that don't say non-GMO? All of the brands I see always say Organic, and Non-GMO. Except for the open tofus I see in the asian supermarkets ... I wouldn't buy them. "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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| mollyhorn
Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582 |
RE: soy??? Posted Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 11:46 PM revolutionoftheheart wrote: Are there any soy products out there that don't say non-GMO? All of the brands I see always say Organic, and Non-GMO. Except for the open tofus I see in the asian supermarkets ... I wouldn't buy them. Organic is automatically non-GMO, as required by law. With conventional, it's a crapshoot. You don't know if it's GMO or not, and you'd have to call the manufacturer to find out. Judging by American agriculture, most large brands probably are GMO. Molly Horn |
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| slowcarr
Joined: 12/27/09 Posts: 33 |
RE: soy??? Posted Thursday, September 23, 2010 at 8:55 AM I have found organic tofu at Krogers in the health food section. In my area it is inexpensive at $1.39 a tub. I live in southeast Michigan. |
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| carrottop
Joined: 09/21/10 Posts: 36 |
RE: soy??? Posted Thursday, September 23, 2010 at 9:36 AM Soy, to me, is fine in moderation - it's just not something that I choose to rely on as my primary source of protein. The funny thing is that as I was thinking to myself of the reasons I don't eat a lot of soy, I went down this rabbit hole of sustainability, environmental toll, GMO vs. organics, cancer risk, cost vs. convenience, etc... My #1, 2 and 3 reasons for not eating a lot of soy are because the harvesting and manufacturing of it takes a huge toll on the environment, a few articles that tie an increased risk of breast cancer to soy (but only to women who start eating it later in life), and how highly processed it is. I've always felt that in the beans vs. tofu argument, beans were always a better choice. But then... I started looking at all the cans of beans I buy. Of course I recycle the cans, but that doesn't negate the fact that they were made in a factory somewhere. So there goes my argument for the environment. Then I realized that I usually just head for the closest cans of beans, and don't always buy organic. There goes the GMO argument, since I'm sure the non-organic beans I buy are all GMO. So.. easy answer is to just buy organic, righ? And I just went on and on in my head about the rest of the issues. I even started thinking about what a bean factory must look like But the cool thing is that I started really thinking about my food choices. And once I looked at them closely, I realized that with a few simple steps, I could get a little closer to my goal of doing as little damage to the planet as I possibly can. |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072 |
RE: soy??? Posted Thursday, September 23, 2010 at 9:47 AM we just buy 25 lb sacks of organic dry beans that come in paper sacks (recycle the sack) - minimizes packaging. we also can get assorted beans (the stuff we don't use as often) in bulk bins so we can just scoop it into our own containers (again less packaging). That's actually one of the things that moved us more and more toward veg*n eating - where we live, you pay by the bag for trash pickup (each large bag costs $1), recycling pickup is a flat fee per year. So, we minimize packaging and reuse/recycle/compost as much as possible. The recycling MUST go out weekly but the trash goes out once every two to three weeks (full disclosure - family of three, 2 adults and one 12 yr old). |
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| legnerk
Joined: 09/14/10 Posts: 34 |
RE: soy??? Posted Thursday, September 23, 2010 at 12:35 PM How do you all feel about the fake meats? Think soysauge, fakon (bacon), friken (chicken), and stuff like fake-meatballs or fake ground beef? The reason I ask is because I tend to avoid these as much as possible so I don't become dependent on the delicious sodium-filled morsels. My fiance, however, LOVES fake meat. Think vegan chili with 2 bags of "ground beef" or soysauge on the weekends and occasionally fricken nuggets during the week. This can't all be healthy, right? If I make stuffed peppers, I make his with fake meat and mine with quinoa, peppers, and onions. Am I depriving myself too much or doing the smart thing? I can't say I miss it, really, except when I see him eating those fake chicken nuggest or "meatballs" and spaghetti. |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072 |
RE: soy??? Posted Thursday, September 23, 2010 at 12:52 PM as with anything else, moderation. Since I can't eat soy, most of those products are off limits anyhow. Not to mention that both hubby and son did not like the soy dogs we tried once or twice. The only faux meat we like is Quorn and that's not vegan (it contains egg white but no soy). |
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| mollyhorn
Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582 |
RE: soy??? Posted Thursday, September 23, 2010 at 1:00 PM legnerk, However, I am a sucker for Morningstar Farms' Grillers Chik'n, and love it like no other. That's one fake meat I haven't been able to give up! I use Morningstar's Crumbles (Italian sausage style) in several recipes, and some other products on occasion. As others have said... in moderation. Molly Horn |
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| DianeJ
Joined: 01/01/10 Posts: 134 |
RE: soy??? Posted Thursday, September 23, 2010 at 2:04 PM Again, I agree with Molly...I use some, but in moderation, and try to pick the healthiest. An occasional veggie dog or burger(maybe once a week) and I like the Gardein chicken tenders on a big salad. But I too, have something I won't give up... I love the Morningstar veg. sausage Patties (only the patties, the links are awful), esp in the maple flavor. I do not eat them every day, but one of those made into a half-sandwich on a piece of toasted whole-nutty grain bread with a little tofu cream cheese, is the best "travel" breakfast out there. I have found this is not about beating ourselves up, its about making the best choices that work for us as individuals for long-term success. And I know, that that veggie sausage absolutely is not as healthy as a bowl of oatmeal, its much healthier than a McD's sausage biscuit. |
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| cleanbean123
Joined: 09/23/10 Posts: 3 |
RE: soy??? Posted Thursday, September 23, 2010 at 5:27 PM Could anyone elaborate on the nutritional facts concerning fermented soy vs. unfermented soy? I've heard that unfermented soy could be harmful. Is this accurate? |
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| mollyhorn
Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582 |
RE: soy??? Posted Thursday, September 23, 2010 at 5:31 PM cleanbean123 wrote: Could anyone elaborate on the nutritional facts concerning fermented soy vs. unfermented soy? I've heard that unfermented soy could be harmful. Is this accurate? I've never heard that. Unfermented = edamame. Edamamde is eaten all the time, by people all over the planet, and has been for centuries. Do you happen to remember what you heard about it? Why it's harmful? Molly Horn |
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