Forums: September 2011 Kickstart Forum: Is vegan OK for small children?
Created on: 09/13/11 03:37 PM Views: 1430 Replies: 11
hegedusd Joined: 09/13/11 Posts: 2	Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Tuesday, September 13, 2011 at 3:37 PM I used to be a vegetarian (fish and eggs OK) for 17 years. After I had my first child I promissed to my family to go back to eating meat to avoid the kids being picky, and show "good example". Now I have a 7 yr old and a 2 yr old. I personally don`t like meat, and try to avoid meat as much as I can. However, I feel that meat and dairy is important for the kids' healthy development to get the calcium, the iron, and some of the proteins that is hard to get from vegetables. I hardly have any time to make dinner, so making 2 different dinners (one for the kids and one for the adults) would be out of question. Has there been any research about vegan or lacto-ovo vegetarian diet for kids?
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2087	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Tuesday, September 13, 2011 at 3:46 PM hegedusd wrote: I used to be a vegetarian (fish and eggs OK) for 17 years. After I had my first child I promissed to my family to go back to eating meat to avoid the kids being picky, and show "good example". Now I have a 7 yr old and a 2 yr old. I personally don`t like meat, and try to avoid meat as much as I can. However, I feel that meat and dairy is important for the kids' healthy development to get the calcium, the iron, and some of the proteins that is hard to get from vegetables. I hardly have any time to make dinner, so making 2 different dinners (one for the kids and one for the adults) would be out of question. Has there been any research about vegan or lacto-ovo vegetarian diet for kids? No, meat and dairy are NOT necessary for kids nutrition. Milk is 'convenient' for fat, protein, etc but is NOT the only way to get those things. Nut butters have TONS of fat and protein. A good whole grain bread with nut butter and a glass of plant milk (which is often fortified with calcium) is a good healthy option. Keep in mind that healthy veg*n eating is a LOT more than vegetables - beans, lentils, grains, nuts (little kids need lots more fat than adults do), fruits as well as veggies. A grain like quinoa has a load of protein, as well as fiber and carbs - kids also need carbs to fuel their energy and growth. Yes, there has been research and, provided you don't feed them tofu and nothing else for every meal (just as you wouldn't feed them hunks of cheddar for every meal), things will work out. I believe you can go to the Resources section (up at the top, next to Community link) and I think there are links to children and veg*n options. Honestly, we weren't even nearly vegetarian when my son was born. Once he was weaned, he rarely wanted milk or meat - he was quite happy with lots of pasta and other grains, yogurt, cheese, fruits, veggies and nut butters. It was only after we got tired of buying whole milk for him (which he didn't like) and started just getting 1% milk and adding chocolate to it that he even bothered drinking milk. He is now 13 and rapidly approaching my height. He's all leg! It's been easier on him, in most areas, to go back to what he innately wanted (veggies, fruits, grains) than it has been for us grown ups. --Deb R
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2087	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Tuesday, September 13, 2011 at 4:27 PM http://pcrm.org/kickstartHome/resources/school_childhood.cfm I went and checked it out for you - here's a start. There are links to books on the subject there as well. Pretty much, kids are born innately knowing what their bodies need. It's only once us grown ups butt in and tell them what they need, how much they need, when they need it, that their internal nutritional navigation gets off track, when we 'convince' them that broccoli is nasty by putting so much 'reward' behind eating it, kwim? If broccoli is good in and of itself, why is mom trying so hard to 'convince' me that it's good. I must be missing something, maybe it's really not so good. When folks ask us (have asked us in the past) how we "got" our son to eat (whatever - broccoli, bell peppers, etc), we just told them "we didn't - we just didn't make him dislike them" He's had free range for his whole life, within the real life constraints of time, budget, availability (if we run out of something, and the grocery store is closed and the budget is tight, it'll have to wait; if the grocery store is open, we have the money, and we can get to the store, then sure, we'll get it now). Totally confuses people that kids can figure out what is best for their own bodies (which is not the same as what is best for us grown ups BTW and even within that, what is best for each individual is different) because we've spent so many years being told what is and isn't "good for us" regardless of what our bodies were saying, that we've learned to ignore what our bodies are saying and need to relearn what kids are born knowing. Barring neurological and physical issues, kids know when they need food and when they're done. It's us grown ups that mess with that, telling them they can ONLY eat when and what we tell them (breakfast MUST BE at this time and these foods; lunch is at this time and dinner is at this time and this is what you eat and how much you eat and NO SNACKS between meals!) A friend mentioned several years ago that her adolescent daughter was eating non-stop from 3 pm until she went to bed around 10 pm. When I stopped her and asked about her daughter's schedule, it clicked with her: daughter had to be up and out of the house by 6:45 a.m. - she'd grab a granola bar or something but she wasn't hungry at that point, she was barely awake. Then her scheduled lunch period was at 11 a.m. so she'd eat something there. School got out and she got home around 3. By then, she was RAVENOUS having had nowhere near the calories or nutrients her growing adolescent self needed (teens need almost the same nutrient balance and relative amount of calories as babies). So, she'd eat non-stop to make up for what she'd missed during the first half of the day. --Deb R
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mollyhorn Joined: 03/03/10 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Tuesday, September 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM Here are two good pages, as well: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren http://www.veganoutreach.org/enewsletter/20010817.html#feature Molly Horn
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cch22 Joined: 09/08/10 Location: New York State Posts: 1001	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2011 at 1:55 PM This was sent to me in an email.. this is not my voice.. It appears it is not good for infants..and if true these parents are going to jail... http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/10316351-dont-you-dare-put-your-newborn-infant-on-a-vegan-diet Perhaps after infancy when they switch to regular foods they could be vegan?? Don't you dare put your baby or young child on a vegan diet just because you choose that style for yourself. Babies need plenty of fatty milk, especially breast milk. Check out the Sept. 12, 2011 Associated Press article by Greg Bluestein, "Vegan couple's life sentence holds in baby's death." And too many mothers give their baby sugary juices or even sugar water to rot their teeth before the teeth even erupt. But in the newspapers today, one vegan couple killed their baby by feeding a 6-week old soy milk and apple juice until the child lost half his body weight and starved to death from malnutrition. Vegans and vegetarians may not realize that babies need milk fat, preferably breast milk, donated or from the mother, or a specialized formula made just for infants. An Atlanta vegan couple had the nerve to feed their baby their own diet of soy milk and sugary apple juice. That's enough to rot the baby's teeth from the inside out before the teeth were even formed. But the reality is fatality. The baby starved to death. The couple's malnourished 6-week-old son starved to death after they fed him a too-limited diet. And the parents will, of course, serve their life sentences for murder, Georgia's top court ruled on today, Sept 12, 2011. The Georgia Supreme Court's unanimous decision rejected appeals. The misinformed parents apparently didn't know that a vegan diet is fatal to infants and babies. In fact, they rushed their baby to the hospital too late, when the baby had trouble breathing. The baby died of starvation caused by malnourishment. Babies can't live on soy milk and apple juice. And you don't give a 6-week old baby milk unless it's a specialized formula made for the infant's ability to digest the particular formula, but not made with vegan milk substitutes. They could have bought donated breast milk, even goat-milk formulas for babies allergic to cow's milk formulas. But the milk would have had to be made into a specialized formula to prevent starvation. The young parents are in their twenties, and the baby was their first. The police found soy milk cartons in their apartment. Never use soy milk as a substitute for baby formula. Even worse as the baby wasted away to 3.5 pounds while being starved by this vegan diet of sugary apple juice and soy milk, they never took their baby to a doctor. The baby had probably lost half his body weight. If an average baby weighs seven pounds at birth, the 3.5 pound baby is what an unborn baby usually weighs when it's 7 months into the pregnancy, not a full-term baby. Basically, the baby starved to death on this malnourishing soy milk diet. And apple juice is simply the sugary water removed from the apple fiber. That diet is fatal to babies six weeks old. Why starve a kid to death and worse yet, not even take the baby to a doctor to get a diet that would allow the 6-week infant to thrive? The baby would have been better off getting donated breast milk from La Leche League or similar groups. A jury convicted them of malice murder, felony murder, involuntary manslaughter and cruelty to children. No baby should be put on a vegan diet at six weeks. The baby needs the breast milk fat to live and grow. The child died because the diet fed was fatal to infants. If you're vegan, don't for a moment think you can put your baby on a vegan diet and expect the infant to live. Defense attorneys countered that the parents did the best they could while adhering to the lifestyle of vegans, who typically use no animal products. They said the parents did not realize the baby was in danger until they rushed his emaciated body to the hospital. The defense attorney theorized the boy's death was due to cystic fibrosis. But no expert was called in to support that theory. According to the judge, the evidence showed the parents were guilty. And if the baby did have cystic fibrosis, a special diet is required for that ailment, which was not proven in court as the cause of the child's death. The outcome of the trial sent the parents to prison with a life sentence. AnneHart is based in Sacramento, California, United States of America, and is an Anchor for Allvoices Report Credibility
	Edited 09/14/11 1:58 PM Quote | Send PM | Link | Top | Bottom
mollyhorn Joined: 03/03/10 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2011 at 2:09 PM That article, while factually true, is alarmist and inflammatory, and does nothing to support veganism or our cause. It is exactly what the naysayers look for when they are trying to tell us that our diet is wrong. The facts are this: Yes, infants and babies need a specialized diet of breast milk or formula. And no, that specific couple did not feed their baby that. But it is not because they were vegan. It is because they were neglectful parents. Please do not blame veganism for their actions. Infants, babies, toddlers, children can be raised healthfully and happily on a vegan diet with only a little effort from the parents to learn proper nutrition – lessons any good parent would want to learn anyway. Veganism is 100% safe for babies and children, and is even recommended, since it lowers the risk for cancer, heart disease, stroke and a myriad of other ailments later in life. Molly Horn
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2087	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2011 at 2:22 PM As infants, babes need mother's milk. If that's not possible for whatever reason, they need baby formula (dairy is NOT the only option for formulas that are safe and healthy for infants). Once they are starting solid foods, provided they are getting the fat content, protein, etc. that they need, a vegan diet is perfectly fine. What is wrong, in that article, is that they were feeding the baby adult-type soy milk which does NOT have the fat, protein, carb profile that a soy-based infant formula would have. Once a babe is weaned, it is totally possible to provide adequate nutrition for their growth and health without dairy or meat. Without even being or thinking about 'vegan' at the time, my son was technically "vegan" until he was just over a year old. He lived on mother's milk (human babies drinking their momma's milk would still count as vegan, yes?), fruits, and veggies (suitably mushed) and rice cereal. It wasn't our lifestyle at all - hubby and I were happily consuming steak and chicken and such the whole time. We tried a pureed baby meat once - son just spit it out so we dropped the subject. He was (and is) a happy, healthy, growing boy (okay so now he's a teen, not a 'child' so much). And, even as a teen (with the heavy nutritional needs of adolescence), he's vegetarian (he still likes a bit of cheese here and there but otherwise eats our same vegan meals). --Deb R
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carrottop Joined: 09/21/10 Posts: 36	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2011 at 4:59 PM It's such a horribly sad thing to read about, and I certainly hope that it's not going to be used to villanize vegan or vegetarian parents. Many news articles have claimed that the child simply (if you can even use that word in this case) starved to death and it had nothing to do with a vegan diet. Here's a quote from an AP article I just read earlier today: Prosecutor Chuck Boring told the court: "No matter how many times they want to say, 'We're vegans, we're vegetarians,' that's not the issue in this case ... The child died because he was not fed. Period."
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hegedusd Joined: 09/13/11 Posts: 2	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2011 at 5:44 PM Thank you for everybody's response. I was not actually interested in opinions, but solid scientific research. I know from med school that there are 8 essential amino acids that are very hard to be obtained from plant proteins. Plus there are so many other things (some vitamins, iron, zinc, etc) that plant based diet lacks, or its abundance is much less. Although an adult body may not need as much of these nutrients, I feel that a developing child might not thrive without them. I was interested if research was done about it, so I did my own investigations. There has been research published on PubMed. It seems that it is probably not safe for a child to be vegan, unless you are making their meals scientifically. It is much safer and easier to add a little animal protein to their meals. There is a very high risk of deficiencies and malnutrition on restricted diets. Here are the links if you are interested: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21912895 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912628/?tool=pubmed
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tinabean Joined: 09/08/10 Location: Pasadena, TX Posts: 113	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2011 at 6:48 PM There is a book, recently published and referencing the latest research (huge bibliography), called Vegan for Life that includes chapters on vegan nutrition for Pregnant & Lactating mothers and for Babies, Children & Adolescents. I'm not sure what was different for babies. Since I don't fit those categories, I skipped those chapters. The parts of the book I did read recommended consuming more protein, iron, etc. than the US RDA for meat-eaters due to some amount going undigested/unabsorbed when consumed in plant form. You can get plenty of the 8 essential aminos from plants just by eating a variety (beans & grains & greens)(quinoa has all 8 in a good ratio) and making sure to get several servings (1/2 c. beans/tofu/tempeh/seitan) a day from legumes & soyfoods. They also recommended consuming a Vitamin C source with each meal to increase iron absorption.
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carrottop Joined: 09/21/10 Posts: 36	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Thursday, September 15, 2011 at 12:07 PM Here's something from the American Dietetic Association position paper on vegetarian diets. The entire paper can probably be found on the PCRM website. It's a pretty lengthy document and they clearly state that a well-planned vegan diet is appropriate for everyone - pregnant and lactating women, infants, children, adolescents, adults and the elderly. Here's one part where they talk about children specifically. If I can find the entire paper, I'll post a link to it. VEGETARIAN DIETS THROUGHOUT THE LIFE CYCLE Well-planned vegan, lacto-vegetarian, and lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy and lactation. Appropriately planned vegan, lacto-vegetarian, and lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets satisfy nutrient needs of infants, children, and adolescents and promote normal growth (49-51). Figure 1 provides specific suggestions for meal planning for vegetarian diets. Lifelong vegetarians have adult height, weight, and BMIs that are similar to those who became vegetarian later in life, suggesting that well-planned vegetarian diets in infancy and childhood do not affect final adult height or weight (53). Vegetarian diets in childhood and adolescence can aid in the establishment of lifelong healthful eating patterns and can offer some important nutritional advantages. Vegetarian children and adolescents have lower intakes of cholesterol, saturated fat, and total fat and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, and fiber than nonvegetarians (54,55).
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cathyb Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 149	RE: Is vegan OK for small children? Posted Thursday, September 15, 2011 at 12:41 PM I think that a vegan diet is fine for kids. My youngest two (ages 5 and have been almost completely vegan (except for special occasion cake that is hard for them to pass up) for about 6 months, before that they ate a little cheese. They are healthy - in fact, the 8-year-old had perfect attendance last school year! Plants have all the nutrients that are needed, and combining at one time is a thing of the past. For more scientific information, you should read the china study. They found that animal protein was detrimental to kids' health.
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