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| Forums: January 2011 Kickstart Forum: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium | |||
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| Pele
Joined: 01/03/11 Posts: 24 |
kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 3:53 PM One of the videos says "eat a variety of foods from the 4 new food groups and you'll be fine" further on says no need to supplement iron/calcium and protein as it's a not an issue. Just supplement B12. OK... this sounds relatively hard to mess up so why then do people mess up so badly with vegan diets? I'm just curious from a nutrition perspective as it SOUNDS easy.... Angelina Jolie said she nearly died as a vegan. I know plenty of people that have told me "oh how I miss being a vegetarian but I couldn't get my nutrition that way/got sick and I needed to start eating some meat." I know one lady who almost died from anemia. When my aunt went vegan she went from a vibrant and curvy women to a frail shell of a human being that visibly aged like 10 years (when she stopped the vegan eatting she gained weight and got more youthful). It is not an uncommon story, what could be the fatal error in these vegetarian/vegan diets if it is pretty hard to mess up? pitfalls to avoid? In my 17 years of vegetarianism I've been told by plenty of people in the medical field that vegetarianism is a dangerous lifestyle choice. Ultimately they didn't want me eating that way but were warning me about how careful I had to be. I've been told by them to be very careful of iron, calcium, protein and B vitamins. I therefore have supplemented all 3 for years and when I've been focused tried to add high protein (often processed protein) to every meal. I've heard such things as the following: - bean and grains have incomplete vegetable proteins. You need complete proteins or you need to combine them correctly. Egg whites are an ideal complete protein so I MUST eat eggs. It obviously didn't stop me but I'm curious about the other side of the story. Also wondering if it's being pitched as too easy by the kickstart when I see contrary examples. Possible? yes, I totally agree but easy and worry free with minimal considerations?! |
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cch22
 Location: New York State Posts: 1000 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 4:27 PM I heard on other thing yesterday.. wondering if true.. they said if a man eats too much tofu or soy products they grow man-boobs... just how much soy does a man have to eat for that to happen or maybe they are just ill-informed??? |
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lisag81
 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 64 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 4:58 PM I have to jump in here because 2 years ago my hemoglobin level was as low as 7.5g/dl and the lowest a woman should get is 12g/dl. I was severely anemic, short of breath, dizzy, tired all the time, grumpy - all the symptoms. I was not vegan or even vegetarian at the time. My doctor put me on a high-protein (meat and eggs), low carb diet to increase my iron. I was told to specifically concentrate on eating red meat and egg yolks since I would get the most iron from those sources. All it did was make me gain weight, feel heavy and sluggish. My iron levels didn't go up at all. I had to go for iron-infusion therapy and while I was in the hospital I started reading the China Study. It gave me a completely new perspective on my situation. I decided to basically defy my doctors and go on a plant-based diet. I cut out meat, eggs and cows milk completely - although I did have cheese on occasion. My labs looked good after the infusion therapy - but six months later, my hemoglobin actually went UP. This happened after I cut out the meat, dairy and eggs. So what the heck? All my doctor could say was, "keep doing what you're doing." I focused on eating dark greens, oats, molasses, raisins and prunes, fortified cereals and nuts. I also took an iron supplement with some orange juice every morning. That's ALL I had to do and it worked for me. So you can be a healthy vegan/vegetarian, or you can be a junk food vegan/vegetarian. But you can also be omnivorous and still be deficient in minerals and nutrients. Check out my blog as I do the 21-Day Vegan Kickstart! http://vegamorphosis.blogspot.com
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mollyhorn
 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 5:08 PM Here are a few articles that should help. Sorry I don't have more time to clarify at length: Calcium & Bones Iron & Omega-3s Do we need extra protein? Soy foods Vitamin D Molly Horn |
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| Mariberry
Joined: 01/02/10 Posts: 297 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 5:21 PM One only has to look at the state of North Americans today to see that eating meat, dairy and eggs in the copious amounts they do does NOT serve them in any healthy way! The obesity rates and diabetes epidemic is proof enough for me! They may have high iron levels but big whoop. They'll die from heart disease, stroke or other complications anyway. Pick up a copy of The China Study, Dr. Barnard's book or any of the other excellent resources and once you've read them, pass along to your doc. Insist he read it (since he insisted you eat meat). Then have another chat. Still so many with old world thinking,eh. The mind boggles. All we are saying is "Give Peas a Chance" |
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| Susan Levin
Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1191 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 5:49 PM Pele wrote: what could be the fatal error in these vegetarian/vegan diets if it is pretty hard to mess up? pitfalls to avoid? - bean and grains have incomplete vegetable proteins. You need complete proteins or you need to combine them correctly. Egg whites are an ideal complete protein so I MUST eat eggs. I think pitfalls include getting really good at excluding animal products and not so aware of everything else there is to eat in the world. It's not as if Americans eat really healthful diets that unfortunately include meat and dairy. Our diets are pretty poor all around. So take out the meat and dairy and you are left with fewer poor options. However, if you take the time to learn about whole, plant foods, you will be introduced to a completely different dietary world. One that is quality dense all around. As to the individual arguments against plant-based diets: 1. Plants have all the amino acids that make up a complete protein. But what is less in beans is higher in grains and vice versa. That's ONE reason why it's important to eat a variety of foods. Soy, like eggs, have high levels of all amino acids. Does that mean you have to eat soy? Nope. You can still get lots of those same amino acids by eating a variety of plant foods. Susan Levin, MS, RD |
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| cch22
Location: New York State Posts: 1000 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 6:21 PM Thank you Lisa, Molly & Susan for addressing these questions so thoroughly! I will have to make sure to stop taking iron if i ever go thru menopause.. hey i am 53 and still going strong.. don't really know if i should be looking forward to it or not... but my doc promised me 3 years ago i would go right into it after going off the pill. One more question about spinach please.. someone said there was a reason not to eat spinach salad; something about raw spinach & the natural vitimins in spinach.. then someone else said when you cook spinach the iron goes away.. |
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presentcrisis
 Posts: 26 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 7:40 PM Personally the people who I've talked to who stopped being vegetarian or vegan because they say they felt bad on the diet didn't know what they were doing. They didn't have enough variety in their diets and ate a lot of vegan/veg junk food. We've all heard of potato chip vegetarians. Of course they aren't going to feel good on the diet if they don't eat whole grains, fruits, and veggies. They won't get proper nutrition if they don't pay attention to what they're eating. It takes a little bit of effort but it's very rewarding if you do try and eat right. For whatever we lose (like a you or a me)
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| Pele
Joined: 01/03/11 Posts: 24 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 8:05 PM lisa: that's really interesting about your anemia story - that's excellent! thanks for sharing! I already know I'm eating almost opposite of my diabetic diet and getting better sugars than I ever have but I never considered iron would work that way so it's strange (from what I have learned over the years) but I can believe it! Although I often supplement iron by habit I've always had terrific levels and it is my friends (who eat meat in various degrees) that usually end up being declined at the blood bank for having too low iron or what not. I've been meaning to read the china study for a while now and I know there is a copy in a wellness center I go to that I can borrow. Will have to do that. molly: those are some good articles. I had heard Vitamin D was important to osteoporosis now but didn't know about the relationship the the calcium. I'm rather sold on what pcrm says about milk/calcium. I've always thought it's ridiculous we consume baby cow's food through our whole lives and find ways to "cope" with lactose intolerance. The soy article was good. I was told by a meat eater I was murdering our planet by eating soy once and I didn't realize cows eat most of the world's supply... or that apparently most of the comments are coming from one group I had never heard of. I might look into that one more. Also an excellent protein article... the concept of combining foods has always boggled me to the point I put my head in the sand and ignored it. I'm glad I can keep my head out of the sand and still ignore it. susan: your comments make a lot of sense. I managed to eat very poorly at times when I was just a vegetarian (all fast food, candy, chips, soda, lots of fat, loads of sugar) and in many ways that was as bad as the SAD. For some reason I always think of vegan as super healthy... but really, a lot of what I once ate in my darkest moments is still vegan and no more healthy. And it's nice to get the opposing side. I've never met a single RD, and I've been to a handful, that didn't have even a partial anti-veg slant if not a full agenda. I've wanted to be plant based intuitively since I was a child before I knew what that meant or my parent's would let me but it's hard to live in cattle country with very little support and a lot of ignorance so I appreciate you engaging me as a devil's advocate while I sort out the collection of strange contradictory messages I get in life. |
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| cathyb
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 149 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 9:58 PM I second the recommendations for the China study and Dr Barnard's books. I would also suggest Christina Pirello's cookbooks, esp the more recent ones - This Crazy Vegan Life and Everything you Always Wanted to Know About Whole Foods (I think this one discusses some problem she had with a b-12 deficiency). My daughter's friend donates platlets, but was often getting rejected due to low iron. She became a vegetarian recently, but never ate much meat it seems. I gave her some food suggestions, plus packages of pumpkin seeds and raisins. At a recent donation, her iron levels were fine, and she gave me and the food the credit. |
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| cch22
Location: New York State Posts: 1000 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Sunday, January 9, 2011 at 6:50 AM Susan Levin wrote: As always, I encourage people to eat soy FOOD, not overly processed soy protein parts. HI Susan.. i guess i don't know what are overly processed soy protein parts. What is listed in the ingredients for that? and can you give me some examples of food that qualifies? soy hot dogs? thanks. |
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| txdoglover
Joined: 03/18/10 Posts: 69 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Sunday, January 9, 2011 at 9:22 AM I think I read a couple of years ago that they disproved the combining of beans and grains to get a complete protein, that's it's good of course to eat both,but you don't have to eat them together to get the benefits? |
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| Susan Levin
Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1191 |
RE: kickstart video on protien/iron/calcium Posted Sunday, January 9, 2011 at 10:17 AM Three questions that came up: 1. Cooking spinach does not deplete the iron. According to the USDA's nutrient database, 100 grams of cooked spinach has more iron than 100 grams of raw (3.57 mg compared with 2.71 mg). In addition, eating spinach with something acidic like vinegar makes that iron more absorbable. 2. When I mentioned processed soy parts, I mean ingredients like soy protein isolates or isoflavones. These are very concentrated protein extracts of soy. And yes, you find them in tofu dogs, fake soy meats, soy protein bars/powders, etc. I think these should be limited, whereas I have seen no evidence that soy foods like tofu, tempeh, miso, edamame, soymilk are harmful. 3. True enough, complementing proteins in the same meal has been disproven. As long as you eat a variety of foods throughout the day, you don't need to worry about getting high levels of each amino acid at every meal. Susan Levin, MS, RD |
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