Forums: September 2011 Kickstart Forum: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet
Created on: 09/16/11 10:09 AM Views: 1893 Replies: 17
farrah77 Joined: 09/15/11 Posts: 11	Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 10:09 AM http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more/ I found this blog post through searching for recipes. She was a vegan for three years but after some ill-health her doctor told her to switch to eating meat. She has and is very happy with the results. Thoughts?
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Susan Levin Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1191	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 10:27 AM It's hard to know what this person was doing wrong not to be getting the appropriate nutrients. Eating a vegan diet is not the reason , but rather her dietary choices were lacking. I'm sorry that this person was told some humans need animal products. There is no scientific evidence to back that up. Maybe some day she will choose a healthier way. Personally, I can't help but see the glaring irony in the meat-eating population (half dying of heart disease, 105 million with diabetes or prediabetes, two-thirds overweight/obese) telling a vegan to cross over to their way of eating for health. Susan Levin, MS, RD PCRM Director of Nutrition Education
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farrah77 Joined: 09/15/11 Posts: 11	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 10:38 AM What are ways to get B12 and more protein? How much protein does a person need? I currently take a B-complex because I was hoping it would give me more energy. (I have taken it long before I became a vegan) After some recent pre-vegan blood work I had a low Vit D level and have been taking vitamin D supplements. Although I do find it strange that more and more people are becoming Vit D deficient lately. I wonder if doctors just started testing for it OR the guidelines have been adjusted recently? I wasn't surprised about my lack of since I am a redhead who rarely goes out in the sun. My husband and I are doing the vegan diet for our health, I just want to make sure we are making the best choices to get all the nutrients we need. We follow Dr. Barnard's menu plan in the Kickstart Book and that seems well balanced.
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Susan Levin Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1191	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 10:46 AM You probably don't need to seek out sources of protein. They will find you! Protein is in your legumes, your grains, and your vegetables. Hint: 1/3 of broccoli is protein in case you never considered vegetables a source. As for needs, it is currently based on weight, and of course, it's done in kilograms just so you can't calculate it in your head. The recommendation is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. Kilograms are calculated by taking pounds and dividing by 2.2. So, if you weigh 150 lbs, then you are 68 kg. And then multiply by 0.8 to get 54 grams of protein. If you eat enough food, you will easily meet this need. And this need is on the high end, as all of our RDAs are created to cover about 98% of the population. As for B12, I would rely on supplemental sources. This means supplemented foods such as plant milks, grains, nutritional yeast, etc. Your B complex is great too. B-12 should be supplemented by anyone over the age of 50, regardless of dietary choices, fyi. Susan Levin, MS, RD PCRM Director of Nutrition Education
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vegankitty Joined: 12/29/10 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 109	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 10:46 AM Nutritional yeast, vitamin supplements can give you B-12 as well as fortified cereals. Personally, for ethical and religious reasons, I wouldn't give up my vegan lifestyle. But again it is a personal choice. It is easy to be mankind, Difficult to be human Striving to become human!
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Susan Levin Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1191	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 10:46 AM You probably don't need to seek out sources of protein. They will find you! Protein is in your legumes, your grains, and your vegetables. Hint: 1/3 of broccoli is protein in case you never considered vegetables a source. As for needs, it is currently based on weight, and of course, it's done in kilograms just so you can't calculate it in your head. The recommendation is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. Kilograms are calculated by taking pounds and dividing by 2.2. So, if you weigh 150 lbs, then you are 68 kg. And then multiply by 0.8 to get 54 grams of protein. If you eat enough food, you will easily meet this need. And this need is on the high end, as all of our RDAs are created to cover about 98% of the population. As for B12, I would rely on supplemental sources. This means supplemented foods such as plant milks, grains, nutritional yeast, etc. Your B complex is great too. B-12 should be supplemented by anyone over the age of 50, regardless of dietary choices, fyi. Susan Levin, MS, RD PCRM Director of Nutrition Education
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vegankitty Joined: 12/29/10 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 109	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 10:49 AM And I personally know cases where they have been meat eating for years but are still Vitamin D deficient. It is not just the vegan lifestyle but as Susan hinted, the wrong food choices that you are making. You can be a vegan and eat all the bad stuff (sugar, white flour, fried food). My theory is unprocessed, plant based food is the best food for your body. It is easy to be mankind, Difficult to be human Striving to become human!
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mollyhorn Joined: 03/03/10 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 10:58 AM That blog post, like many others floating around on the internet, is (I think) a fabrication created to serve the ends of the writer. I highly doubt that this person's doctor spent that much time sitting with them, explaining each nutrient in detail - after all, most of us can barely get our docs to stay in the room for 5 minutes! She also shows an extreme stubborn streak when asked to eat a balanced diet, wherein she says “I’m sorry, I just can’t. I won’t.” I said to her for the millionth time, wiping the tears that were flowing down my face. “It just isn’t going to happen. I don’t care how sick I am." ––– Do those sound like the words of someone really intent on taking care of her own health? I have a feeling that this woman was one of those lazy vegans who eats the same things every day, and never bothers to check and see if she's getting the proper nutrients. (I know she says otherwise, but I don't trust her.) For someone who was once vegan to now take such joy in consuming dead flesh strikes me as not just hypocrisy, but outright lies. Molly Horn
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Susan Levin Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1191	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 10:59 AM (Sorry about the double post above) Vitamin D is important, and it has only recently been a focus of attention in lab work. We will see how it plays out in the future in terms of advice. But the IOM weighed in on this issue late last year. You may find it interesting: Before a few years ago, tests for vitamin D were conducted infrequently. In recent years, these tests have become more widely used, and confusion has grown among the public about how much vitamin D is necessary. Further, the measurements, or cut-points, of sufficiency and deficiency used by laboratories to report results have not been set based on rigorous scientific studies, and no central authority has determined which cut-points to use. A single individual might be deemed deficient or sufficient, depending on the laboratory where the blood is tested. The number of people with vitamin D deficiency in North America may be overestimated because many laboratories appear to be using cut-points that are much higher than the committee suggests is appropriate. Much more here: http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2010/Dietary-Reference-Intakes-for-Calcium-and-Vitamin-D/Report-Brief.aspx?page=1 Susan Levin, MS, RD PCRM Director of Nutrition Education
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farrah77 Joined: 09/15/11 Posts: 11	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 11:19 AM Thanks for the input. After all I have read from Dr. Barnard and other sources regarding dairy and meat products I agree they are not healthy. Dairy especially scares the heck out of me now! And I was a cheese ADDICT. My husband and I would eat a plate of cheese, olives, crackers, and salami with wine for dinner. ( And we wonder where the high cholesterol came from!) Another question that has been bugging me...Are white potatoes really ok? Within moderation of course? I was surprised at all the recipes in the book using white potatoes. Normally I would run from them and now they are part of the diet.
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 12:19 PM farrah77 wrote: Another question that has been bugging me...Are white potatoes really ok? Within moderation of course? I was surprised at all the recipes in the book using white potatoes. Normally I would run from them and now they are part of the diet. Depends on what you mean by "Okay". For the average person, they're fine (in moderation - not those honkin' huge spuds at steakhouses!) if they're not smothered in fat (butter, sour cream, cheese, bacon). However, I still go easy on standard russets and white potatoes - they send my glucose levels way high. But, I can have a small amount of red/new potatoes without a problem (as long as I watch everything else with it). So, "okay" can have a bunch of meanings. --Deb R
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theodore Joined: 09/16/10 Posts: 641	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 12:57 PM Dear All, Having read this blog post from start to finish, a couple of points spring to mind: 1) She credits meat as having cured her severe depression. But in the first paragraph, she mentions that she'd suffered from LIFELONG depression. Now bearing in mind that she'd been a meat-eater for the first 26 years of her life, it's weird that she would credit meat as curing her depression, when in fact she had experienced depression all her life and had been eating meat for the first 26 years of that life. 2) She says that after 3 years on a vegan diet she was having trouble remembering her friends’ names, and that eating animal products helped her eradicate this problem. Note, due to the vague language used in her blog, It’s unclear whether she was having trouble remembering individual friends’ names on sight, or whether she was simply having difficulty reciting a list of all her friends from memory. Either way, I can tell you that I also had the same problem when I first turned vegan. But only because I had recently befriended several people who I didn’t actually give a s**t about. Plus I had also recently made friends with two Polish vegans named Dorotozynsckya Gugulskanacyekcz and Katarzynckqszchyksk Piestrinowoliecz and a Saudi Arabian named Alzhaarhi Elsayed Uqlidisi ibn Qalqashandi or something. Needless to say, the inclusion of such individuals in anyone’s social circle is gonna make name recall a little difficult, and I suspect that's what's going on here with "Voracious". In my case, my doctor basically used what's known as a “belt and braces” approach, advising me to include some animal products in my diet whilst also advising me to stop making friends with people just for their money and sever relations with any individual whose name contained over 9 consenants in a row. As it happens, I ignored the first part of his suggestion and just ditched the money "friends" and the Polish and Saudi Arabian folk, and the problem completely dissappeared. Hope this helps. I'll post more criticisms if and when time allows. Theodore Never make assumptions. You'll end up being an A**, and the UMP will TION you. -- Coach Smiley -- Fresh Prince of Bel Air
	Edited 09/16/11 1:00 PM Quote | Send PM | Link | Top | Bottom
Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 1:00 PM theodore wrote: Plus I had also recently made friends with two Polish vegans named Dorotozynsckya Gugulskanacyekcz and Katarzynckqszchyksk Piestrinowoliecz and a Saudi Arabian named Alzhaarhi Elsayed Uqlidisi ibn Qalqashandi or something.Theodore So you met Dot, Kat, and Al - how hard is that, Ted? --Deb R
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farrah77 Joined: 09/15/11 Posts: 11	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 1:03 PM Here is a blog response I found to the Voracious Vegan... Finding all sorts of interesting stuff on the web today! http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/11/do-ex-vegans’-stories-make-the-case-against-vegan-diets.html
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vegankitty Joined: 12/29/10 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 109	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 1:08 PM Wow...that's a good one! It is easy to be mankind, Difficult to be human Striving to become human!
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 1:13 PM There indeed may have been all sorts of things going on - an undetected allergy to soy combined with intake of lots of tofu and tempeh, for example. Undetected gluten intolerance is another that could lead to all sorts of symptoms (a friend was just diagnosed with celiac after over a year of symptoms). A plant based lifestyle in and of itself is likely not the main problem - it may just have included something that triggered a problematic situation. For that matter, feeling pressured and stressed and out of control about what one "can" or "can't" eat can lead to depression and other physical issues (stress is a big cause of many physical ills). Choosing to eat "whatever one wants" would alleviate that stress and take the physical issues with it - it wasn't the food itself, it was taking back the locus of control. --Deb R
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sis11 Joined: 08/17/11 Posts: 30	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Friday, September 16, 2011 at 1:50 PM I appreciate the thoughtfulness of these answers. Wish I'd had you all there when I was sitting at a writer banquet not long ago and one of the new students, a meat-eater (a very successful man, quite confident), looking at my plate of broccoli stir-fry, started telling a story about how his wife had been a vegetarian and lost mental focus and her doctor told her to eat meat and within 24 hours blah blah blah. The miracle cure. Then he looked at my face and said, "But everyone's bodies are different." Because he was a student, and it was dinner time, I said, "Hmmm," rather than, "Our bodies are pretty similar but our BELIEF SYSTEMS vary wildly." (Which would have been a perfectly fine response if I could have delivered it with calm good humor...) Some people who are veg and have difficulty are likely to be suffering from poor nutrition, some food intolerance, or a whole range of other things. But it could also have been, as Deb says, her own stress. And the belief that the doctor was right. One out of three people completely responds to the placebo effect in medicine. And it's just as true when they're told, basically, "This is a sugar pill, but if you take it you'll get better, and we don't understand why, but it works." I think that meat can often function as the "sugar pill." There's no actual medical evidence to suggest that eating animal products are good for you -- all the research shows that it's plants that are healing. But the mind is very powerful... Sarah Animals-Planet-Health
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kiwi Joined: 01/03/11 Location: New Zealand Posts: 405	RE: Blog Post Found for reasons against Vegan Diet Posted Sunday, September 18, 2011 at 4:47 AM farrah77 wrote: Here is a blog response I found to the Voracious Vegan... Finding all sorts of interesting stuff on the web today! http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/11/do-ex-vegans’-stories-make-the-case-against-vegan-diets.html Thanks. I enjoyed reading the response and also looking at a new (to me) web site "The vegan RD". Perfect timing after the discussion on another post (I went to see a dietitian today) about dietitians. This is one of the good ones. Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food - Hippocrates.
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