21-Day Vegan Kickstart

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Forums: April 2012 Kickstart Forum: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Created on: 04/05/12 11:50 AM Views: 9469 Replies: 44
Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Thursday, April 5, 2012 at 11:50 AM

I have now officially been diagnosed as having diabetes and slightly high cholesterol. Sad I feel a real shift in my motivation, my attitude, and my outlook for this 21-Day Vegan Kickstart - much more positive. My GP and I do not see eye-to-eye but the Diabetes Nutrition Clinic has given me the go-ahead to follow Dr Barnard's Program for Reversing Diabetes (I would have anyway).

Luckily, I don't have to purchase a glucometre and test myself. Very Happy

I am concerned about the statin drug, lipitor, that my GP put me on for my cholesterol. While 10 mg/day may have helped to bring my cholesterol down from 3.4 mmol/L (my December 2011 reading) to 1.6 mmol/L in three weeks, I don't feel that it is the safest way to handle the problem. Any suggestions?

"I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that he didn't trust me so much." -- Mother Teresa

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Thursday, April 5, 2012 at 1:10 PM

AnnieGoat wrote:

I have now officially been diagnosed as having diabetes and slightly high cholesterol. Sad I feel a real shift in my motivation, my attitude, and my outlook for this 21-Day Vegan Kickstart - much more positive. My GP and I do not see eye-to-eye but the Diabetes Nutrition Clinic has given me the go-ahead to follow Dr Barnard's Program for Reversing Diabetes (I would have anyway).

Luckily, I don't have to purchase a glucometre and test myself. Very Happy

I am concerned about the statin drug, lipitor, that my GP put me on for my cholesterol. While 10 mg/day may have helped to bring my cholesterol down from 3.4 mmol/L (my December 2011 reading) to 1.6 mmol/L in three weeks, I don't feel that it is the safest way to handle the problem. Any suggestions?

Yes. Stay on the medication until you've been vegan for a while. Be sure to get things like whole grains, beans, etc into your day every day. Once you've got a good routine going, and the doctor has re-checked your blood work, discuss reducing or weaning off the meds *under dr's supervision* and see if the numbers go up, down, or stay the same. While diet and exercise play an important role in cholesterol levels, cholesterol is produced naturally in the body and sometimes elevated cholesterol is a genetic thing. I know someone who would have super high cholesterol even living on lettuce leaves and water and exercising for hours every day. He *needs* meds to control it. His dad had it, his sibling(s) have it, it's genetic (his mom doesn't have it, so it's not food/environment based). My hubby brought his cholesterol level down so much after just 6 months that his dr did a double take and reduced his medication. But, again, there's a genetic component that needs assistance. On the other side, my cholesterol profile is like my dad's - higher on the HDL and lower on the LDL - and when I switched from omni to vegetarian to vegan, I am keeping my numbers low enough that I have staved off my dr's wanting me on a statin med (since I'm also diabetic type 2, 5+ yrs since diagnosis). He agreed that as long as my lifestyle keeps the numbers in check, he won't push the statin. Last time I had it checked (around early Feb), the HDL and LDL were virtually identical (and triglycerides were good as well) and well within the good range (somewhere around 75 each).

--Deb R

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Thursday, April 5, 2012 at 1:13 PM

Hi,
That is a very lose dose.. Also I am sure that while listening to Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr speak he did say that if your doc tells you to take it..a statin.. then it is better to take it. He says better safe than sorry. The vegan diet is not a cure all. Genes have a lot to do with it and of course there are other factors. Again.. what you are taking is a very lose dose. Here is the good news, you might never need a higher dose.
I was on statins before plant based diet. I was able to lower my dose. My body just makes lots of choresterol.

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Friday, April 6, 2012 at 7:51 PM

I have had type 1 diabetes for 34 years and have been on preventative medicines, including Vytorin, for over 15 years. Hopefully, by watching your diet, exercising and losing weight the type 11 diabetes will go away (it should) but don't worry too much about the medicine for now. It has kept me healthy and I have no diabetic complications as a result.

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Friday, April 6, 2012 at 9:15 PM

Hi

I would refuse the Lipitor or any Statin, including Vytorin, as all Statins have been proven to cause Diabetes 2. Also, there is no scientific evidence that Statins lower mortality rates in women. "The FDA said it is making labeling changes to the medicines that are used to prevent heart related problems associated with cholesterol.

Lipitor (atorvastatin), Lescol (fluvastatin), Mevacor (lovastatin), Altoprev (lovastatin extended-release), Livalo (pitavastatin), Pravachol (pravastatin), Crestor (rosuvastatin), and Zocor (simvastatin).

In addition to statins, the new labeling changes apply to several combination drugs that mix older statins with newer cholesterol medicines, including Advicor, Vytorin, and Simcor.

New labels will warn of memory loss and confusion reported among certain patients taking statins. The problems were generally not serious and went away after patients stopped taking the drugs, according to the FDA."

Says a CBS story. However Dr. Beatrice Golomb of the UCLA medical school has been funded by the U.S. National Institutes of Health to do a study on the HARMS of Statins. She has over 1,000 study participants who have been harmed by Statins, with many saying the side effects have not gone away once stopping. https://www.statineffects.com/info/

Ask your doctor to telephone Dr. Golomb before you cause yourself permanent harm with your Statin.

This institute led by a clinical pharmacologist who is with the Cochrane Collaboration has also done studies on Statins harms. His studies are not industry funded by the pharmaceutical industry (which most that you read are) but funded by the Ministry of Health for the province of British Columbia in Canada. Therapeutics Initiative ti.ubc.ca

You can also get your doctor to telephone him. These harms are known. Why does your doctor continue to prescribe harmful drugs to you?

Edited 04/06/12 9:19 PM
RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Friday, April 6, 2012 at 9:45 PM

I too have that pesky high cholesterol. Runs in the family. Tried statins, they brought it down dramatically, but I couldn't handle the side effects. I am praying that my diet changes will impact, and I am early into a walking plan. But, my physician wants me to start on Welchor and OTC red rice yeast. I have been putting off starting them, but plan to give them a go next week.

--Sandy

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Friday, April 6, 2012 at 9:53 PM

Thank you "babs" for your lengthy and learnéd posting to my topic. I will definitely be checking out what the Therapeutics Initiative (here in my own province) has to say about the statin drugs and the harms they can do. It is good to know that I am getting information that is not generated by the pharmaceutical companies themselves but, rather, research funded by another source. Smile

Anne

"I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that he didn't trust me so much." -- Mother Teresa

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 12:39 AM

babs wrote:

Hi

I would refuse the Lipitor or any Statin, including Vytorin, as all Statins have been proven to cause Diabetes 2. Also, there is no scientific evidence that Statins lower mortality rates in women. "The FDA said it is making labeling changes to the medicines that are used to prevent heart related problems associated with cholesterol.

Lipitor (atorvastatin), Lescol (fluvastatin), Mevacor (lovastatin), Altoprev (lovastatin extended-release), Livalo (pitavastatin), Pravachol (pravastatin), Crestor (rosuvastatin), and Zocor (simvastatin).

In addition to statins, the new labeling changes apply to several combination drugs that mix older statins with newer cholesterol medicines, including Advicor, Vytorin, and Simcor.

New labels will warn of memory loss and confusion reported among certain patients taking statins. The problems were generally not serious and went away after patients stopped taking the drugs, according to the FDA."

Says a CBS story. However Dr. Beatrice Golomb of the UCLA medical school has been funded by the U.S. National Institutes of Health to do a study on the HARMS of Statins. She has over 1,000 study participants who have been harmed by Statins, with many saying the side effects have not gone away once stopping. https://www.statineffects.com/info/

Ask your doctor to telephone Dr. Golomb before you cause yourself permanent harm with your Statin.

This institute led by a clinical pharmacologist who is with the Cochrane Collaboration has also done studies on Statins harms. His studies are not industry funded by the pharmaceutical industry (which most that you read are) but funded by the Ministry of Health for the province of British Columbia in Canada. Therapeutics Initiative ti.ubc.ca

You can also get your doctor to telephone him. These harms are known. Why does your doctor continue to prescribe harmful drugs to you?

Like you Babs, I am aware of the side effects and I wouldnt take any Statin if I was paid to, including Lipitor. But I also want to add that we each have to look at the evidence and make up our own minds about any medication. We need to be informed consumers, looking at our individual situations and weighing up the pros and cons as we are not all the same. It is not enough to just rely on our doctors these days as doctors are busy and a lot of their information only comes from the drug companies selling whatever drug. They dont have time to do more research.

Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food - Hippocrates.

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Here is a link to an article that was published in our local paper http://www.mcall.com/opinion/yourview/mc-statin-side-effects-meade-yv--20120310,0,3367573.story. The author, who is an M.D., mentions the importance of Coenzyme Q 10. Until this article I don't remember seeing anything about it.

My DH's cholestrol was 204 last spring and since my father-in-law has been on statins for some years and my mother-in-law just started to take a low dose one (her parents had stroke probelms) , he thought he would try to see if he can lower it by changing his diet and eating mostly legumes and vegetables. After 3 months, he was able to lower it to 180 or something close to that. However the only downside was: his triglycerides were up to 165 from 156. He thought maybe it was related to the olive oil and nuts he was eating then. Before he changed his diet we were basically eating the same foods, except

*for him diluted fruit juices(he still does this), for me: water

*For him: eat a granola bar with milk after lunch, now nuts and sometimes regular milk other times a mixture of oat and almond milks, for me: fruit

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 11:43 AM

If choresterol is the one thing you are trying to lower.. might i suggest Esseltyn's book? the big rule is NO added oils. NONE. Nada. Zilch.
also.. as both caldwell esseltyn and jeff n. say.. eat your oatmeal.

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have his book and I know about not having much aded oils, like our kickstart. My cholestrol levels are fine, except I can increase my HDL from 48 to a higher level. In fact maybe it is already better as I have lost 17 pounds since December and can lose 40 more!

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 2:48 PM

Hi AnnieGoat

Wanted to add, don't give your doctor the responsibility for your health information. You are obviously very computer literate: you do it. He/she may never call Dr. James Wright at Therapeutics Initiative about Statins and women, or Dr. Beatrice Golomb about her study on Statin harms. You can e-mail them. They are very approachable to questions, and want to hear from people who have used Statins and had side effects. Best thing to know is: Statins cannot prevent heart disease, and are only beneficial to treat in middle aged men who have already got heart disease. Still many in that latter category stop taking them because of the pain, memory loss, confusion, dizziness, ED, ulcers, etc. Read the website Statin Effects Study. Remember, Dr. Golomb is not funded by the pharmaceutical industry. She is funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Dr. Wright is not funded by the pharmaceutical industry either, but by the British Columbia Ministry of Health. Wishing you good health.

By the way, my Total cholesterol is over 400. I have no cardiovascular disease. Fully half those who have heart attacks have low cholesterol.

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 3:43 PM

@Babs, just curious, I wonder if you have a gene that the researchers found in some Italians with high cholesterol but no cardiovascular problems. With that high cholesterol, do you also have rather high HDL levels?

@cch2, do you prepare oats in different ways? All I do is to cook them with water, sometimes I use some plant based milk to get a bit of a different taste. Come warmer days, I don't think I will be too crazy about preparing a warm breakfast, but rather eat Kashi's Autumn Wheat with cold rice milk. On the other hand, I like to have tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers with fresh chopped mint on, a few olives and my downfall cheese, feta in this case -- I need to find a replacement for the feta for my summer breakfast!

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 3:49 PM

Hello Yasim. I have not been genetically tested, although yes, I have the profile you mentioned but I'm not Italian. Smile Very high total cholesterol, very high LDL, very high HDL and very low triglycerides.

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 5:01 PM

Babs, thanks for the reply. So, somehow your high LDL and high HDL balance each other... I am not a scientist who knows the ins-and-outs of blood, cholesterol, etc. but just an engineer who like to learn more about having a healthy diet both for myself and loved ones. Yet, when I hear about somebody like you, the researcher in me goes into high gear and I want to learn more Smile

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 5:06 PM

hI,
I just cook them and yes i put different fruits on them to change it up.
apples & cinnamon
blueberries
apples & a small amount of chopped walnuts
banana on the side.

I often eat cold cereal w/unsweetened soy milk.

cch

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Yesim, many people descended from French Canadians who lived on the North Shore of St. Lawrence River have this profile.

Re oatmeal: I cook a batch of Stone Cut Oats in water with a cinnamon stick or two. When cool I parcel it out in two-serving sized containers and freeze. This week I am doing something different. I have lots of 1/2 pint jars. I ladle the warm oatmeal in each about half way up, sprinkle with more cinnamon, some raisins, maybe some slivered almonds or walnuts, screw the lids on and put them in the fridge. One for each day. Then I can just grab them and go. It's like pudding!

Edited 04/07/12 9:15 PM
RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 9:18 PM

Yesim I have read on cooking blogs of people putting nutritional yeast on their oatmeal. Apparently it tastes like cheese. They also use lots of spinach and other vegetables. One place I've seen this is The Healthy Librarian. I believe she follows the Esselstyn diet.

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Saturday, April 7, 2012 at 10:59 PM

Yesmin - congrats on the weight loss!

--Sandy

RE: Now diabetic / Now on lipitor
Posted Sunday, April 8, 2012 at 12:48 PM

If you are taking a Statin, or have been cautioned about your cholesterol, download and read this paper from Women and Health Protection, a women's health initiative under the auspices of Health Canada (Cndn. equivalent of FDA). It's easy to understand and very informative about why women have higher cholesterol esp. as we age, and it's beneficial, and why women are not men in dealing with our health. Studies are done on men not women, so seldom apply to us. (Surprise!)

http://www.whp-apsf.ca/pdf/statinsEvidenceCaution.pdf


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