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| Forums: September 2011 Kickstart Forum: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! | |||
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| sparkledee
Joined: 09/04/11 Posts: 48 |
Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Thursday, September 22, 2011 at 1:48 PM Hi Everyone! I have a question mainly about vegetarianism thats been on my mind. I know what a Vegan is Dee |
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mollyhorn
 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 582 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Thursday, September 22, 2011 at 2:03 PM There are varieties of the diet as well: an ovo-vegetarian diet includes eggs but not dairy products, a lacto-vegetarian diet includes dairy products but not eggs, and an ovo-lacto vegetarian diet includes both eggs and dairy products. A vegan diet excludes all animal products, including eggs, dairy, and honey. Semi-vegetarian diets consist largely of vegetarian foods, but may include fish or poultry, or other meats on an infrequent basis. Those with diets containing fish or poultry may define "meat" only as mammalian flesh and may identify with vegetarianism. A pescetarian diet includes "fish but no meat". The common use association between such diets and vegetarianism has led vegetarian groups such as the Vegetarian Society to state diets containing these ingredients are not vegetarian, due to fish and birds being animals. from Wikipedia. There are a number of types of vegetarianism, which exclude or include various foods. * Ovo vegetarianism includes eggs but not dairy products. Some vegetarians also avoid products that may use animal ingredients not included in their labels or which use animal products in their manufacturing; for example, sugars that are whitened with bone char, cheeses that use animal rennet (enzymes from animal stomach lining), gelatin (derived from the collagen inside animals' skin, bones and connective tissue), some cane sugar (but not beet sugar) and apple juice/alcohol clarified with gelatin or crushed shellfish and sturgeon, while other vegetarians are unaware of such ingredients. Individuals may describe themselves as "vegetarian" while practicing a semi-vegetarian diet, as some dictionary definitions pertaining to vegetarianism vary and include the consumption of fish,[8] while other definitions exclude fish and all animal flesh.[11] In other cases, individuals may simply describe themselves as "flexitarian". These diets may be followed by those who reduce animal flesh consumed as a way of transitioning to a complete/and or true vegetarian diet or for health, environmental, or other reasons. Semi-vegetarian diets include: * pescetarianism, which includes fish and some of the other forms of seafood; Semi-vegetarianism is contested by vegetarian groups who state that vegetarianism excludes all animal flesh. Molly Horn |
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| tinabean
Joined: 09/08/10 Location: Pasadena, TX Posts: 113 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Thursday, September 22, 2011 at 2:18 PM Oh this is a big peeve of mine: people who call themselves vegetarian and aren't! They just confuse everyone else and are the ones to blame for all the times we get served chicken/fish/shrimp by well-meaning hosts who proclaim, "I made this especially for you!" My former supervisor once forwarded me a customer complaint that his cousin received at a rural grocery chain here in Texas. I wish I still had it because it was pretty priceless. I can't even remember the whole thing but basically it ended it with the statement, "We are vegetarians and we only eat chicken." |
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| Susan Levin
Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1189 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Thursday, September 22, 2011 at 2:21 PM Now I'm confused. Susan Levin, MS, RD |
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| lisasays
Joined: 09/07/11 Posts: 39 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Thursday, September 22, 2011 at 2:29 PM its simple. A vegetarian eats nothing with a face and some eat eggs and some dont. I have never met a vegetarian that ate eggs, but no dairy (ovo-vegetarian), but maybe they really do exist. If you eat fish or any kind of meat, you are not any kind of vegetarian. vegan's eat no animal products or biproducts. |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2068 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Thursday, September 22, 2011 at 2:53 PM Sometimes, those myriad veg*isms are steps on a path, sometimes they are an end in themselves. For example, about 8 or so years ago, we eliminated beef and pork. Then we reduced poultry and dairy. Then we eliminated poultry, eggs, and liquid milk but kept cheese and yogurt and fish. Then I eliminated cheese and fish but kept yogurt (DS is still a cheese lover and on the omnivore side of vegetarian; DH is on the vegetarian side of vegan; I'm mostly vegan with occasional slips). Then yogurt went but I'll still use honey on rare occasions. And, there are always the odd slips or reduced option situation (for example, in a social situation where the choice is a mixed chicken and rice casserole or no food at all, and skipping a meal entirely is not a good choice for a diabetic). I know that, for us, getting from omnivore to vegan was made easier by going a step at a time and exploring the next step first before totally committing to that step - "we can TRY this red lentil soup recipe, if we don't like it, we can always go back to chicken noodle"; "we can TRY this black bean burger patty, but we can go back to the Quorn grounds if we want to". We gradually accumulated techniques, ingredients, and recipes enough to fill several weeks' worth of meals and didn't need to fill them in with meat or dairy based options. And, now, some 8 years later, we have a repertoire of vegan entrees that we are confident enough in that we bring them to potluck meals and serve them to omnivores - who LOVE them! Yup, we've got folks at our regular monthly potluck at church who look for our dishes specifically (I usually label whatever I bring so folks with health issues can make informed decisions). Not only are our dishes vegan, but they're generally soy and gluten free (because we know folks there who have issues with those type ingredients) and, most important, they taste GOOD! We recently made a BIG pot of mushroom corn chowder (the corn is cooked then blended to make a corn 'milk' which gives it that chowdery texture and creaminess) and served it to a group - we got 3 servings to take home for leftovers (out of a big soup pot - and there were only maybe 15 people there!) We also made vegan stuffed eggplant (aka rollatini) using almond milk ricotta and breading it with fresh corn meal instead of bread crumbs. We were hoping for a few to take back home as leftovers for lunch the next day - sigh, none left! --Deb R |
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gryphonpro
 Location: Cape Breton, NS, Canada Posts: 239 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Thursday, September 22, 2011 at 5:36 PM I finally have time to respond, and see that the question was well dealt with! I just wanted to add that there are a lot of very well meaning people who "think" they are vegetarian but aren't, and some very prominent people who present themselves as vegetarian, but are actually a bit "flexible" in their private lives. I like the PCRM term Plant Based, for that reason. With this term one doesn't have to get dogmatic about it. If we can ever get away from defining any meal by the hunk of meat that is assumed to go with it, we will be much better off. I call myself Madeline, and I try my best to eat a low-fat, plant-based, whole foods diet. I currently have no desire to eat seafood or other meat, or dairy, but I would try my best to appreciate anything that was prepared for me with love, and look for a way to educate at another moment. The reality is that lifestyle change seems to have to come in big steps for it to have a chance to take hold... otherwise, if one is too "flexible" from the start, there is the slippery sliding slope back to the standard american diet. It is also truly more difficult to learn new habits, new recipes, new ingredients, if one continues to use the old favourites, even sparingly. But many people do lighten up as time goes by, even those who start off as animal rights activists (oops, I hope I haven't started something with that). Technically speaking, if you eat any meat, ANY meat, you are not vegetarian. Oysters are not plants. If you eat any dairy, including eggs, you are not vegan. Take the leap, and you will find your own way once you get far away from the old way. - madeline madeline yakimchuk
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| gryphonpro
Location: Cape Breton, NS, Canada Posts: 239 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Thursday, September 22, 2011 at 5:41 PM I just read Bugsmom's response and it is very valid too... some people need a total break, and some people need to go slow, I suppose. It is like quitting smoking. Some people must go cold turkey, or they just go obsessive again at the first argument, and others have to cut down. You will find your way. - madeline madeline yakimchuk
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2068 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 8:31 AM gryphonpro wrote: I just read Bugsmom's response and it is very valid too... some people need a total break, and some people need to go slow, I suppose. It is like quitting smoking. Some people must go cold turkey, or they just go obsessive again at the first argument, and others have to cut down. You will find your way. - madeline One thing I didn't mention explicitly is that we were never *aiming* to be vegan and it was never about the animals, per se, as much as it was about our own health. That the two concerns converged is more incidental than deliberate. Each step along the journey has been part of a continuum - we did the best we knew how, when we knew better, we did better. --Deb R |
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Wild4Stars
 Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM It's very confusing to other people when all this craziness enters the conversation. I like to focus on what I CAN eat, therefore I like the term plant based diet. Of course sometimes I have to clarify what exactly that means. I have found that many people think that the term vegan means you are some militant animal rights activist and they're instantly on the defensive. Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2068 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 10:07 AM Wild4Stars wrote: It's very confusing to other people when all this craziness enters the conversation. I like to focus on what I CAN eat, therefore I like the term plant based diet. Of course sometimes I have to clarify what exactly that means. I have found that many people think that the term vegan means you are some militant animal rights activist and they're instantly on the defensive. yeah, that's why hubby will talk about plant based eating, all the tasty things he cooks, but he won't start out with 'vegan' - if someone says "is that like vegan?" he'll say yes (because it is) but by not starting there, the conversations usually go in a more interesting direction. --Deb R |
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| sparkledee
Joined: 09/04/11 Posts: 48 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 11:00 AM Thanks everyone for your responses. Its been very informative; even got a chuckle out of "oysters are not plants." During this Kickstart my only slip, (plus my yogurt) was making and eating enchiladas for my husband (included ground beef, colby cheese, sour cream), and it was certainly HIGH FAT! My gut felt awful!!! Plus, the swelling from the salt in the enchilada sauce!!! Wow! Shockingly, my fasting blood sugar the next morning was still under 100 (92). Perhaps because I had just swam 1.25 hours just before I ate the huge meal. I love the PLANT BASED diet (prefer that term) and I think the slip, for me, just reinforced that.
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| flybirdy
Joined: 09/08/11 Posts: 2 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 6:18 PM If we can ever get away from defining any meal by the hunk of meat that is assumed to go with it, we will be much better off. I call myself Madeline, and I try my best to eat a low-fat, plant-based, whole foods diet. I currently have no desire to eat seafood or other meat, or dairy, but I would try my best to appreciate anything that was prepared for me with love, and look for a way to educate at another moment. - madeline[/quote] Oh well said! Especially that last lovely line about appreciating things prepared with love and looking for a way to educate at another time. I have been wondering how I would describe the way of eating that I've discovered on this kickstart, and I'd pretty much come to the same description as you used, too. I'm not going to be completely vegan, but eating a low-fat, plant-based diet and avoiding processed, refined rubbish seems to be making an unbelievable difference to my cravings for sweet stuff, and I've rediscovered the fun of cooking dinner. I think the important thing is finding what works for you. If that's going cold turkey, then do that. If it's small changes, do that. But either way, be kind to yourself if you don't always make the best choices. We're all human! |
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LaniMuelrath
 Location: California Posts: 557 |
RE: Vegan, Vegetarian & Everything Inbetween! Posted Sunday, September 25, 2011 at 11:24 AM What an interesting conversation and thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. Not long ago I did an investigation into the term 'vegan' and found some interesting information: We're also begged the question: If a term is accurate yet somehow has developed a connotation not deserved, is it incumbent upon us to change the word or stand up for it and change the perception? Vegan Mainstream is one force that is doing that - the idea is to make 'vegan' a mainstream term with all its positive elements. The approach is refreshing and if you haven't seen it check 'em out; they also have a weekly newsletter.
Lani Muelrath, M.A. CGFI, CPBN
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, but what exactly is the definition of a Vegetarian?? It seems in encompasses many different eating styles - fish/seafood but no meat of any kind, no fish or meat, but eggs are ok, no eggs fish or meat but dairy is ok, no dairy and on and on.. you get what I mean. Vegan is pretty clear cut. I'm just curious because so many times I hear people say they're a "Vegetarian" or start a discussion about it, but what is the reasoning behind the many different eating patterns or styles of Vegetarianism? Hope this doesn't sound too confusing, but I'm a bit confused.
I've done very well, but my ONE vice is giving up Greek Yogurt! I think in my mind its more about protein and calcium. Seems like a nice condensed source for both. 
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