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| Forums: September 2011 Kickstart Forum: It's not working for me | |||
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| magda
Joined: 09/09/11 Posts: 10 |
It's not working for me Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 10:26 AM I tried to adapt the vegan diet for longer than 3 weeks, but it's simply not working for me. During that time instead of losing I gained some weight but lost some muscle mass which I had worked hard to gain... I could eat a ton of greens and be hungry again after 15 minutes, I ate a lot of grains beans to keep me going, but they are apparently too carb loaded and make me gain weight. I generally ate more (bigger portions), because otherwise I was hungry all the time. My blood test showed that I almost developed anemia (my iron level was just at the low border of normal). My hair started falling out... So... after some thinking and an internal fight (because I have read enough vegan material to feel guilty at the mere thought of eating animal products) today I ate a cup of cottage cheese. A small cup, but along with a whole grain roll it made me satisfied and I feel good. I finally feel satiated and not stuffed. So... goodbye veganism and welcome back balanced omnivore diet |
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| aleta
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: Claremont, CA Posts: 153 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 12:10 PM I know what you mean. I have been trying to do this for awhile. I am on again and off again. I have tried to eat the best vegan meal and most of the time feel sick, stomach upsets, bloat and more. Yes I have eaten and drank all the requirements and still... I hate to leave this place as you all are very helpful. I have had a lot of support here and feel very at home. BUT as this post said I don't feel good. aleta |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 12:43 PM aleta wrote: I know what you mean. I have been trying to do this for awhile. I am on again and off again. I have tried to eat the best vegan meal and most of the time feel sick, stomach upsets, bloat and more. Yes I have eaten and drank all the requirements and still... I hate to leave this place as you all are very helpful. I have had a lot of support here and feel very at home. BUT as this post said I don't feel good. You can say that the milk and cheese is what it does to us. But if you have been off of it for weeks, months and feel the need to feed your body then how is that an addiction? I wish I could eat vegan...all the time. But I try and eat as much as I can. I try and do the best I can. And I too will not be eating 3 cheeseburgers a day, or even a week. I won't eat red meat. But I will eat as healthy as I can and eat vegan when I can. They're not "requirements" - they're guidelines or pointers to eating healthy plant based meals. Bloating et al might be signs that you are intolerant to something you were eating a lot of - for example, if the removal of dairy, eggs, meats meant you were eating a lot more wheat, it's possible that it triggered a sensitivity. 3 days of soy milk on my cereal and I was crabby, bloated, uncomfortable in my own skin. Switched to almond milk and within a few days I was back to my usual perky self --Deb R |
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| donnamae
Joined: 09/01/11 Posts: 35 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 3:25 PM I am definitely not an expert, and in fact have only been 'plant based' for the length of this kickstart! But what I believe is, like anything, you may have to adapt it to fit your place in life at the moment. Sometimes I think we set ourselves up to be 'all or nothing' -- I know actually I do that. But in reality, if you made little adjustments it might be easier. I am surprised at how many people say they were vegetarian so many years before they went vegan then went plant based. Maybe just cutting something - beef, chicken, whatever, and working on that for awhile. Just some thoughts for you. I don't want you to think you're a failure for not doing it 100%. I don't think that's what real life is all about!! |
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| magda
Joined: 09/09/11 Posts: 10 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 4:21 PM Thanks for all the kind responses I don't think I'll come back to meat (mostly for ethical reasons) but I will probably have dairy and eggs on occasion. I just crave them so much sometimes (eggs in particular) that I can't resist it. I thought maybe I'd elaborate a bit so if somebody is patient enough to make it to the end, maybe you can give me some guidelines or point out if I'm doing something totally wrong and not realizing it Some time ago I lost about 10kg (~20 lbs) and managed to keep the weight steady for over a year. I didn't starve, ate small meals 5x a day and generally got slim in a rather healthy way. I also started working out regularly during my weight loss period and I continue to this day, sometimes a bit less, sometimes more, but usually not less than 5 hours a week (a mix of different cardio classes, some weight, some power yoga...) Then I started experimenting with vegetarianism (the "softest" version - including dairy & eggs) and soon after I decided to go vegan for ethical reasons. I also did some reading, including "The China Study" and was convinced that veganism was the way to go. However, my body did not seem so convinced as my mind and I literally dreamed about scrambled eggs and other stuff that was "off limits". So finally I "broke the rules" ate these eggs or whatever, felt bad about what I did and after some time tried to give veganism another shot. Both during vegan and non-vegan periods I was eating rather healthy and exercising. But I noticed that when I go vegan, my body soon becomes "mushy" and my muscles seem to disappear, even though I work out as usual (and recently I even focused more on weight training which is supposed to build muscle). I'm trying to get enough protein in my diet. I hardly have options regarding protein powders since I live in Poland and it's even hard to find soy protein powder here, not to mention hemp, peas or any other kind of plant protein. And I'm not crazy about soy isolate, so I avoid it... So... maybe I'm a bit vain, but I worked really hard to get my body in shape and I'd like to keep it that way. Generally, I love most vegan foods. I think they taste better than most "normal" foods. if only somebody invented vegan eggs Wow, that is a lengthy post. If you made it to this point, thanks for reading |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 4:45 PM magda wrote: Thanks for all the kind responses  Definitely I suffer from the "all or nothing" syndrome and I was trying to make it 100% from the very beginning... I should probably work more on my approach to life in general in this aspect  I don't think I'll come back to meat (mostly for ethical reasons) but I will probably have dairy and eggs on occasion. I just crave them so much sometimes (eggs in particular) that I can't resist it. I thought maybe I'd elaborate a bit so if somebody is patient enough to make it to the end, maybe you can give me some guidelines or point out if I'm doing something totally wrong and not realizing it Some time ago I lost about 10kg (~20 lbs) and managed to keep the weight steady for over a year. I didn't starve, ate small meals 5x a day and generally got slim in a rather healthy way. I also started working out regularly during my weight loss period and I continue to this day, sometimes a bit less, sometimes more, but usually not less than 5 hours a week (a mix of different cardio classes, some weight, some power yoga...) Then I started experimenting with vegetarianism (the "softest" version - including dairy & eggs) and soon after I decided to go vegan for ethical reasons. I also did some reading, including "The China Study" and was convinced that veganism was the way to go. However, my body did not seem so convinced as my mind and I literally dreamed about scrambled eggs and other stuff that was "off limits". So finally I "broke the rules" ate these eggs or whatever, felt bad about what I did and after some time tried to give veganism another shot. Both during vegan and non-vegan periods I was eating rather healthy and exercising. But I noticed that when I go vegan, my body soon becomes "mushy" and my muscles seem to disappear, even though I work out as usual (and recently I even focused more on weight training which is supposed to build muscle). I'm trying to get enough protein in my diet. I hardly have options regarding protein powders since I live in Poland and it's even hard to find soy protein powder here, not to mention hemp, peas or any other kind of plant protein. And I'm not crazy about soy isolate, so I avoid it... So... maybe I'm a bit vain, but I worked really hard to get my body in shape and I'd like to keep it that way. Generally, I love most vegan foods. I think they taste better than most "normal" foods. if only somebody invented vegan eggs Wow, that is a lengthy post. If you made it to this point, thanks for reading Susan and others who are trained in nutrition might be better to give details but it sounds like you're missing out on something, if you're just eating a plate of greens and not including beans, lentils, grains in the same meal - that's what'll keep you feeling full. But, eating a smaller portion of the grains (if that's what is leading to weight gain that you don't want) and a bigger portion of greens but not going totally one way or the other might help. Have you looked at the Power Plate information off the main kickstart page? That might help you find a better balance. Also, for your own self, maybe adding back in some nuts (and don't forget fruit!) would help. But, I've gotta give you credit for working so hard at it in a place where it's harder to get access to a lot of things we take for granted in the US. I can run to the local supermarket and have a choice of at least 2 or 3 different plant milk options (plus the variants, like sweetened or unsweetened, plain or vanilla or chocolate, etc). And even more at the local vegetarian co-op (where there are 6 or more options). If the only thing I had access to was soy milk, I'd probably be using low fat cow's milk since I tolerate that better than soy. On a different note, what is it about eggs (or dairy) that you are craving? Not something to answer here necessarily but something to consider when that desire arises. Often, it's not necessarily the egg but rather something about the egg that we want - maybe more protein is needed, maybe more fat, maybe there's an association of scrambled eggs as a comfort food from childhood, maybe it's not the egg so much as the way it's prepared or accompanied (for example, if you're in the habit of using particular spices or toppings in your omelette that you rarely use otherwise). Once it's considered, there's often another way to meet that. For example, sometimes I'll get to wanting cheese. When I stop, take a drink of water (in case thirsty is really the need), and think, sometimes it's the salty that I want - and I'll grab some lightly salted whole grain crackers or a nice homemade pickle and that's enough. Sometimes it's the texture, that creaminess that cheeses have. That's a bit harder to deal with - since tofu and I don't get along, finding other creamy textured but not spicy foods is important. It's a little higher in fat than typical kickstart foods but a spread of mashed avocado on a tortilla often works or sometimes I'll have a bit of nut butter (I never would've thought years ago that we'd regularly have 3 or 4 different nut/seed butters in the house). Meeting that little bit of creamy goes a long way to heading off an 'eat my way through the kitchen' binge looking for something that satisfies. And, yeah, sometimes I don't even give it a second, considered thought and just grab a bit of cheese. I do the best I can in that moment, try to plan better for the future, and move on. --Deb R |
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| aleta
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: Claremont, CA Posts: 153 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 5:17 PM I'm sorry that I jumped in here to "magda" post. I just wanted to say that I hear you & suffer from the same thing. And I really don't have any answers. aleta |
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| magda
Joined: 09/09/11 Posts: 10 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 5:36 PM feel free to jump in again whenever you want |
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| aleta
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: Claremont, CA Posts: 153 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Friday, September 23, 2011 at 6:18 PM
aleta |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Saturday, September 24, 2011 at 8:45 AM aleta wrote: Your ideas here has helped me see that yes I can do this and know drive myself nuts in the process. I will have to keep from kicking and hitting myself when I eat some tuna or when I just can't look another bean in the eye. Thanks again and thanks, magda for being so open here. If you cook some chickpeas, let them cool, and chop coarsely -a few pulses in the food processor is all - then add your fav "tuna salad" mix ins (celery, onion, mayo-like substance, etc) you'll end up with a rather tasty tuna-like substance. Be sure to add a pinch of salt (a wee bit) to get that bit of 'fish/seafood' in the mix. We usually use celery, onion, prepared mustard, and a bit of mayo like substance. Taste ends up somewhere between tuna salad and egg salad, with a definite tuna-like texture. My tuna loving son is quite happy just having our 'not tuna' - I've asked if he wants me to pick up a few cans of tuna and he's said 'nope, the not tuna is fine' It is important to let the chickpeas cool to get that crumbled texture. It's the opposite of making hummus where you want them hot so they will get smooth and creamy. --Deb R |
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| magda
Joined: 09/09/11 Posts: 10 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Saturday, September 24, 2011 at 9:12 AM Deb, that sounds really good |
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| aleta
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: Claremont, CA Posts: 153 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Saturday, September 24, 2011 at 11:42 AM Bugsmom wrote: aleta wrote: Your ideas here has helped me see that yes I can do this and know drive myself nuts in the process. I will have to keep from kicking and hitting myself when I eat some tuna or when I just can't look another bean in the eye. Thanks again and thanks, magda for being so open here. If you cook some chickpeas, let them cool, and chop coarsely -a few pulses in the food processor is all - then add your fav "tuna salad" mix ins (celery, onion, mayo-like substance, etc) you'll end up with a rather tasty tuna-like substance. Be sure to add a pinch of salt (a wee bit) to get that bit of 'fish/seafood' in the mix. We usually use celery, onion, prepared mustard, and a bit of mayo like substance. Taste ends up somewhere between tuna salad and egg salad, with a definite tuna-like texture. My tuna loving son is quite happy just having our 'not tuna' - I've asked if he wants me to pick up a few cans of tuna and he's said 'nope, the not tuna is fine' It is important to let the chickpeas cool to get that crumbled texture. It's the opposite of making hummus where you want them hot so they will get smooth and creamy. --Deb R Deb... yes I have tried this. And my hubby that is all meat or nothing, said it was good. I liked it. But...and I know I am a downer here. I puffed up like a balloon. I'm now thinking I have a digest problem. Taking some supplements for it but some things just really get me even when I take the digest aid. Any thoughts on that? I was thinking that that could be why I am so turned off by the foods here. aleta |
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| sparkledee
Joined: 09/04/11 Posts: 48 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Saturday, September 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM That "not Tuna" sounds delicious. I think I'll make it today and put it in a big salad with lots of veggies. I'll probably just use extra virgin olive oil instead of a mayo substitute and see how that works. Thanks for the recipe! Have leftover chickpeas I made the other day and wanted to use them up. Dee |
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LaniMuelrath
 Location: California Posts: 557 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Saturday, September 24, 2011 at 4:19 PM Bugsmom wrote: aleta wrote: I know what you mean. I have been trying to do this for awhile. I am on again and off again. I have tried to eat the best vegan meal and most of the time feel sick, stomach upsets, bloat and more. Yes I have eaten and drank all the requirements and still... I hate to leave this place as you all are very helpful. I have had a lot of support here and feel very at home. BUT as this post said I don't feel good. You can say that the milk and cheese is what it does to us. But if you have been off of it for weeks, months and feel the need to feed your body then how is that an addiction? I wish I could eat vegan...all the time. But I try and eat as much as I can. I try and do the best I can. And I too will not be eating 3 cheeseburgers a day, or even a week. I won't eat red meat. But I will eat as healthy as I can and eat vegan when I can. They're not "requirements" - they're guidelines or pointers to eating healthy plant based meals. Bloating et al might be signs that you are intolerant to something you were eating a lot of - for example, if the removal of dairy, eggs, meats meant you were eating a lot more wheat, it's possible that it triggered a sensitivity. 3 days of soy milk on my cereal and I was crabby, bloated, uncomfortable in my own skin. Switched to almond milk and within a few days I was back to my usual perky self --Deb R Such a pleasure to read all the suggestins and support in response to magda and aleta's posts. Deb R you led the way with your compassiate and enlightening response. In my fitness coaching practice, whenever I get the "id doesn't work" question - whether its exercise or diet - there's always something that shows up that explains it. And compliments to both magda and aleta for putting it all out there to generate feedback and support. That's how you tweak and make progress. Good job all! Lani Lani Muelrath, M.A. CGFI, CPBN
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sis11
 Posts: 30 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Sunday, September 25, 2011 at 8:59 PM There are a lot of really good answers here -- so I'm mostly just reinforcing the idea of a) being kind to ourselves. It's not about being pure or being perfect -- it's always going to be a journey, though I think the specific cravings really do go away after a while if you're not eating any animal stuff. I also have nuts or nut butter sometimes when I would have had cheese, or a tofu scramble instead of eggs, for people who can eat soy. (It's usually a fat craving with me...) I think it's especially helpful to experiment by eliminating foods that are likely to be a problem (especially soy, corn, wheat) and then reintroducing them, one at a time, to see what happens. There are a lot of different plant-based diets. It seems like the very-low-fat ones really turn around bad health conditions. For those in better health, it might work to try a slightly higher fat, lower grain version, or check out macrobiotics, or to try Joel Fuhrman (very limited grains, starchy vegetables, fats, fruits, but tons of vegetables and a big salad before lunch and dinner. I know a few people who've revolutionized their health on that one). My favorite chickpea "tuna" salad recipe right now is in Vegan with a Vengeance. I either soak hijiki and cut it in or, more usually, chop or crumble a sheet or two of nori. The seaweed works great for Caesar salads too. Sarah |
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| magda
Joined: 09/09/11 Posts: 10 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Monday, September 26, 2011 at 3:33 AM Hi All Thanks again for your kind responses. When I was first writing this post I was half expecting a response along the line of "you're doing it wrong, go away and don't discourage other people", so I was really uplifted to find so much understanding and support So, I'm going to keep trying and not get mad over an "accidental" bite of cheese every now and then |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Monday, September 26, 2011 at 8:20 AM magda wrote: Deb, that sounds really good I need to find a "mayo like substance" and give it a try Again, not so easy to find veganaise in Poland. I think that for a non-tuna or another non-fish salad it could be a good idea to add some seaweed for the "fishy" falvor (I also hear the seaweed is super healthy. For me it's not edible on its own, but in a salad - maybe ).I'm working on perfecting it to my taste but you can use ground flaxseed, water, vinegar, mustard (powder or prepared) and a little oil to make an emulsion in the blender that is close to mayo. I made it once so far and it was okay but it still needed tweaking on the seasoning - the emulsion part worked though. I'm not sure where I found the basic concept but you might be able to google it. We've also tried using a white bean based 'mayo' - the 'beanaise' recipe we definitely found online. But, hubby prefers a smoother texture so we're heading in a different direction. We don't use "veganaise" because it's soy based. --Deb R |
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| tinabean
Joined: 09/08/10 Location: Pasadena, TX Posts: 113 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Monday, September 26, 2011 at 11:09 AM Magda - Including a Vitamin C source (citrus, peppers) with every meal should increase iron absorption. Also, some recommend taking Calcium between meals so that it does not interfere with iron absorption. I think there are a few other vitamins that also play into iron absorption, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Aleta - I am not sure what could be causing the puff-up. Chickpeas sometimes make me feel gassy, whereas most other beans don't, so there could be some component to them that's different from other legumes ? |
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| aleta
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: Claremont, CA Posts: 153 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Monday, September 26, 2011 at 11:13 AM Bugsmom, are you soy intolerant? I've been looking things up on line to see if that is one of my issues. I was wondering what the reactions are? I was using Canola mayo from Trader Joes. I just checked and it has soy isolate. aleta |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2072 |
RE: It's not working for me Posted Monday, September 26, 2011 at 11:25 AM aleta wrote: Bugsmom, are you soy intolerant? I've been looking things up on line to see if that is one of my issues. I was wondering what the reactions are? I was using Canola mayo from Trader Joes. I just checked and it has soy isolate.  Thanks for the idea here of the "falx mayo" I think I'll try it. Or just use mustard. I like mustard but like the creamy texture of mayo.I get hormonal 'stuff' if I have more than trace amounts of soy. For instance, if something I eat once a week maybe has soy lecithin, I can deal with it. But, if I eat tofu or drink soy milk on my cereal, I get PMS-like symptoms no matter where in the month I am. Symptoms include feeling bloated, disturbed sleep patterns, cravings, irritable, weight gain/water retention. All that icky stuff like that. Yeah, I like the occasional creamy texture for some things but most commercial products and many recipes use some form of tofu to create that texture. So, we're roaming further afield for recipes. Plus, if we can have a recipe to make something rather than purchasing something prepared (like making mayo instead of buying mayo) then we can control the ingredients exactly to our liking (more spicy, less spicy, more salt, less salt, etc) --Deb R |
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To be sure, I'm not going to switch to bacon sandwiches and cheeseburgers 3 times a day. But... an omelet with veggies for dinner tonight. oh yes 
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