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| Forums: January 2011 Kickstart Forum: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? | |||
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 9:52 AM I have been vegan for a little over 3 years. Actually I don't eat much of anything lately due to pain from herniated disc surgeries and such. And I certainly don't eat a lot of processed oils. My cholesterol has always tended to be high, but I'm surprised that it has still been high since I've been vegan. My ratio and HDL's are good so no doctor has asked me to go on Lipitor or such. I have been diagnosed with Pure Hypercholesterolemia, which is genetic. I recently asked this internist I have been seeing about my high cholesterol and my being vegan. She responded, "well don't you know ... it's the carbohydrates you're eating". And then she cited the Atkins diet and how people's cholesterol went down from eating animal products. I don't know what to make of this. I don't get into it with her but I know she's dubious about the healthiness of a vegan diet. From visit-to-visit she never seems to remember that I'm vegan ... she keeps asking me why I'm not on fish oil and I have to remind her that I'm vegan. I'm getting pretty disenchanted with her. "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2068 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:02 AM 1 - probably need to find another doctor who at least makes a note in your file that you're vegan so it doesn't keep getting "forgotten" 2 - there may be some level of truth to the carb/cholesterol connection, I'd have to let the actual medical folks speak to that. However, it is important to be eating whole grains, fiber containing stuff like oatmeal, and not just any old carbs (white flour and white rice for instance). 3 - hubby has a combo of dietary and genetic cholesterol issues. Simply eating a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast for 6 months reduced his cholesterol level (total, LDL, triglycerides) so much that the doctor did a double take looking at the test results. If you're doing the kickstart, you're probably getting plenty of oatmeal, so that can help. 4 - adding animal cholesterol to your diet won't help, that's pretty sure but you might want to look at the rest of what you eat to see if you might be over compensating in other ways (high glycemic carbs for instance) --Deb R |
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| soon2BVeg
Joined: 08/24/10 Posts: 225 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:09 AM My stepmother reduced her cholesterol with oatmeal also, and she is not a vegan or even a vegetarian. The doctor wanted to put her on Lipitor, and she said 'Give me a few months to do something on my own, and if I can't improve the numbers by then, I'll go on Lipitor." She had great results simply by eating oatmeal every day. Stepmom is on a diet that I thought at first sounded goofy. It's a "food combination" kind of diet, where you don't eat animal protein with starch and you have to eat your fruit several hours separately from all other foods, but it works for her. She has IBS and diverticulitis that has landed her in the hospital several times. Also, she has no gall bladder, which I think may contribute to her problems. The good thing is that she and my Dad have reduced their animal protein consumption tremendously due to this diet, which wouldn't work for me, but if it makes them healthier, I'm all for it. Don't make a New Year's Resolution...make a Decision! |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2068 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:15 AM soon2BVeg wrote: Also, she has no gall bladder, which I think may contribute to her problems. A friend of ours is vegetarian now because of her gall bladder problems - eating meat made things really bad so she cut that out entirely and takes it easy with other animal products (dairy, eggs). It's kind of fun in a way because we're her 'go to' resource often for new food ideas/recipes. She lives with her parents and her mom is allergic (anaphylaxis allergic) to soy, so finding veg*n recipes that don't rely on tofu or other soy based subs can be interesting. I don't "do" tofu and such either (not allergic but it does some funny things to my system) so we have all sorts of foods, ideas, recipes that work for her whole family. --Deb R |
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craftycat70
 Location: Southern California Posts: 139 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:21 AM
"well don't you know ... it's the carbohydrates you're eating". And then she cited the Atkins diet and how people's cholesterol went down from eating animal products. All I can say is......"Time to get a new doctor!" All that protein is very hard on the system, especially the "kidneys". You can't convince me that eating cheese, bacon, butter, eggs & meat can in any way be good for "cholesterol". Even if by some fluke it lowered it your choleterol.....you'd be killing your body in so many other ways. My Uncle had diabetes and went on the Atkin's diet a couple of different times. My Aunt believes it is the main reason his kidneys were failing. He ended up passing away with kidney, liver & pancreatic cancer. Craftycat - Southern, CA |
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:23 AM Bugsmom wrote: 1 - probably need to find another doctor who at least makes a note in your file that you're vegan so it doesn't keep getting "forgotten" zz
Hello again and thanks Bugsmom -- my days with this doctor are numbered ... just finishing up a series of vitamin drips and my Cobra ends so I can't afford her anyway. For a couple of reasons I can't burn any bridges with any of the doctors I dislike, so I just have to keep mum about the things that bother me about them. 2 - there may be some level of truth to the carb/cholesterol connection, I'd have to let the actual medical folks speak to that. Yes, waiting to see what they say here. However, it is important to be eating whole grains, fiber containing stuff like oatmeal, and not just any old carbs (white flour and white rice for instance). 3 - hubby has a combo of dietary and genetic cholesterol issues. Simply eating a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast for 6 months reduced his cholesterol level (total, LDL, triglycerides) so much that the doctor did a double take looking at the test results. If you're doing the kickstart, you're probably getting plenty of oatmeal, so that can help. 4 - adding animal cholesterol to your diet won't help, that's pretty sure but you might want to look at the rest of what you eat to see if you might be over compensating in other ways (high glycemic carbs for instance) --Deb R "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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| Cheryl
Joined: 01/03/11 Location: Westfield, NY Posts: 7 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:29 AM I will be real interested to see a response from some of the dietitians out there. While I was researching different "diets", I came across quite a bit of Atkins type diets that say that it's the carbs that make you fat. They all have their impressive success stories and lots of "scientific studies". A low fat,vegan diet such as this would be considered about the worst way you could eat. It gets very confusing and I started to blame my vegetarian diet to be the cause of my weight gain. I actually considered eating meat again! Luckily, common sense prevailed and I found this website. |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2068 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:30 AM Ihave been eating more oatmeal, but I do get sick of it. And it's so filling, I can hardly finish it ... I put a lot of stuff in it ... banana, flaxseed, walnuts, raisins, a little brown sugar. I also eat instand oatmeal sometimes is that okay too for fiber? Thanks for the nudge to get back to it. I'm going to make some now. Confession: not following kickstart yet. Kind of mentally disorganized due to pain from herniated disc issues. --Deb R |
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:38 AM This doctor was recommended to me by my D.O.'s, who couldn't get to the bottom of my very elevated sedimentation rate ... but that's a whole other unrelated story. . So she, and an endocrinologist, did every blood test they could on me, including food allergies. Nothing. Oddly, L-carnitine and arichidonic acid were high. Maybe the nutritionists here could address why that would be. Anyway, she says to me "You sure you're not sneaking some animal protein in there Paula?" I wanted to throttle her. "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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| idealady
Joined: 01/04/11 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 27 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:40 AM You may also wish to identify how much coconut product you consume in the processed vegan foods that you are using, because coconut contains closely related building blocks to cholesterol that are suspected of elevating test results in some cases. (You may find it in vegan cookies or cheeses, for example.) Oatmeal does have a small but significant effect in lowering cholesterol. Discuss with an RD or MSc nutritionist what quantity is generally required to achieve the desired effect and what is realistic to expect in your situation. It is important to find a supportive internist and consulting nutritionist, ones who will work together and give you expert advice and time to explore alternatives to the statins. There is no one approach that works for everyone. I am a retired science research librarian, and am genetically predisposed to cardiovascular disease and type II diabetes, and have made a very small quantity of rolled oats or steel cut oats (and fish oils) a part of my daily regimen. I have increased my physical activity, limited caloric intake, and am adopting part of the vegan diet to my lifestyle, but cannot make the full transition now on first exposure. But I am not a credentialed nutritionist or medical doctor.) Good luck in finding the best team to support your health needs. |
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:41 AM Bugsmom wrote: Ihave been eating more oatmeal, but I do get sick of it. And it's so filling, I can hardly finish it ... I put a lot of stuff in it ... banana, flaxseed, walnuts, raisins, a little brown sugar. I also eat instand oatmeal sometimes is that okay too for fiber? Thanks for the nudge to get back to it. I'm going to make some now. Try the fruited quinoa recipe (I think it was Monday or Tuesday this week), try brown rice, try millet - all high fiber hot cereal options. Also, in summer, I like to take the oatmeal, add plant milk instead of water, then a little sweetener and some dried fruit and cover it, put it in the fridge overnight. In the morning, it's a cool, tasty, way to eat oatmeal in the summer heat. Instant oatmeal has almost no fiber left to it - they have to cut it into wee dust particles to make it 'instant'. However, oatmeal is reheatable (stovetop or microwave as you choose), so if you make a double or triple batch one day, you can eat for several without a lot of extra work. Confession: not following kickstart yet. Kind of mentally disorganized due to pain from herniated disc issues. --Deb R Quinoa, yes! I have a bunch of it ... I keep forgetting about it. Will do that right now. Thanks for all your sage advice, you're a peach! "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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| Susan Levin
Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1189 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:44 AM Atkins and Atkins-like diets (or what someone termed hyper-American diets) are not healthful in the long run. Weight loss is possible on any calorie cutting diet (and cholesterol usually does drop with weight loss). But we are looking at the whole picture here. The whole body - a lifetime of health and well being. That means living a life at decreased risk for heart disease, cancer, high blood pressure, and diabetes. Susan Levin, MS, RD |
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| Susan Levin
Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1189 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:51 AM Here are some lengthier discussions from respected nutrition experts: http://anhs.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=442:the-new-atkins-study-effective-diet-or-misleading-media&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267 Susan Levin, MS, RD |
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| philocrates
Joined: 03/18/10 Posts: 47 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:56 AM Read Dean Ornish's book about heart disease reversal. He sees a link with fat in diet. This is a very low fat diet on Kickstart so if you are following it and still producing too much, it is the liver. That simple. You may very well be one of those who actually need medication to lower it even on the optimum diet for low cholesterol. The other half is in the same boat. |
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 10:57 AM [quote="idealady"]You may also wish to identify how much coconut product you consume in the processed vegan foods that you are using, because coconut contains closely related building blocks to cholesterol that are suspected of elevating test results in some cases. (You may find it in vegan cookies or cheeses, for example.) I was big into coconut oil for a while after reading "The Coconut Miracle" but I stopped it because my cholesterol did go up, despite what they say. And that was a long time ago. Occasionally I'll bake with it, but I find coconut oil is best for topical, sensual purposes, if ya know what I mean Oatmeal does have a small but significant effect in lowering cholesterol. Discuss with an RD or MSc nutritionist what quantity is generally required to achieve the desired effect and what is realistic to expect in your situation. Yes maybe it's time to find a vegan-friendly nutrionist. Lots of luck to me, I don't believe there are too many out there. Thanks for reminding me. It is important to find a supportive internist and consulting nutritionist, ones who will work together and give you expert advice and time to explore alternatives to the statins. There is no one approach that works for everyone. I am a retired science research librarian, and am genetically predisposed to cardiovascular disease and type II diabetes, and have made a very small quantity of rolled oats or steel cut oats why very small?(and fish oils) Do you find the fish oil to be effective? I tried it for my sed rate (marker for inflammation) and it had no affect. I do take liquid D3 in olive oil base because the sun just doesn't cut it for me and I can't play around with my bones, etc ) a part of my daily regimen. I have increased my physical activity, limited caloric intake, and am adopting part of the vegan diet to my lifestyle, but cannot make the full transition now on first exposure. But I am not a credentialed nutritionist or medical doctor.) Good luck in finding the best team to support your health needs. And good luck to you idealady in minimizing or eradicating your risks. "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 11:11 AM Susan Levin wrote: Here are some lengthier discussions from respected nutrition experts: http://anhs.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=442:the-new-atkins-study-effective-diet-or-misleading-media&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267 Thanks Susan, though I didn't mean to say that this doctor was actually recommending the Atkins diet. It was just a flip answer she gave me, I assume attributing my high cholesterol to my vegan consumption of refined and even unrefined carbohydrates. Flip, and stupid. She's never asked me to keep a food diary so how does she know. She even assumed at the beginning, before any blood tests, that I had gluten sensitivity and handed me her last copy of a book called "Dangerous Grains" and said to me "if anyone needs to read this it's you". Guess what, I have zero gluten sensitivity. Grrrr. She's pregnant with her 3rd child and I'm there to help pay for its college education. She's not focused on her patients. Can't wait to finish with her. "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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| Susan Levin
Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1189 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 11:44 AM That is frustrating. I guess listening was not part of her training. Susan Levin, MS, RD |
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 11:55 AM Susan Levin wrote: That is frustrating. I guess listening was not part of her training. They all suck. All they are good for are tests and prescriptions. Other than that you're on your own. "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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| Bugsmom
Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2068 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 1:34 PM revolutionoftheheart wrote: Susan Levin wrote: That is frustrating. I guess listening was not part of her training. They all suck. All they are good for are tests and prescriptions. Other than that you're on your own. I wouldn't say that - our primary care dr is the one who pointed us at the DASH plan before prescribing any meds for hubby's hypertension. That, in turn, set us in the path of veg*nism. --Deb R |
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| revolutionoftheheart
Joined: 01/07/10 Location: NYC Posts: 164 |
RE: High Cholesterol due to vegan diet??? Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2011 at 1:42 PM Bugsmom wrote: revolutionoftheheart wrote: Susan Levin wrote: That is frustrating. I guess listening was not part of her training. They all suck. All they are good for are tests and prescriptions. Other than that you're on your own. I wouldn't say that - our primary care dr is the one who pointed us at the DASH plan before prescribing any meds for hubby's hypertension. That, in turn, set us in the path of veg*nism. --Deb R I wish I lived near you to go to that doctor. Happy for you "In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought." Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978 |
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. I don't eat much processed vegan stuff ... only occasionally a faux meat.| New Topic Reply Subscription Options |
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