Forums: January 2011 Kickstart Forum: Separating out the three goals of vegan eating
Created on: 01/21/11 11:41 AM Views: 1355 Replies: 5
Checochinican Joined: 01/04/11 Posts: 148	Separating out the three goals of vegan eating Posted Friday, January 21, 2011 at 11:41 AM 1. Ethical considerations 2. Weight loss 3. Reversing type 2 diabetes, correcting insulin resistance I fully support the ethical/compassionate treatment of animals, but for this discussion, I'd like to focus only on #3, above. My weight is already too low. Devil's advocate here: I hypothesize that reducing insulin resistance depends upon a calorie deficit, which is why many diets work for type 2 diabetes, from ultra-low carbohydrate diets to vegan/vegetarian diets. One of my books on diabetes even states that - calorie deficit is necessary. Setting exercise aside for the moment, does the success of the vegan diet with insulin resistance depend on keeping a steady weight loss? Please talk me out of this theory. At 96 lbs, it makes me nervous.
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Oceandog Joined: 01/10/10 Location: California, USA Posts: 642	RE: Separating out the three goals of vegan eating Posted Friday, January 21, 2011 at 11:45 AM Oh to be able to give you extra padding (from myself of course!) with which to do your research! I am sorry all I have to offer you is support and warm wishes, I have no knowledge of this topic. Best wishes! Always offer kindness and a soft word to the beings around you; You do not know their journey. Your words can be the hug they need or the shove that breaks them.
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Bugsmom Joined: 09/13/10 Posts: 2068	RE: Separating out the three goals of vegan eating Posted Friday, January 21, 2011 at 12:24 PM Checochinican wrote: 1. Ethical considerations 2. Weight loss 3. Reversing type 2 diabetes, correcting insulin resistance I fully support the ethical/compassionate treatment of animals, but for this discussion, I'd like to focus only on #3, above. My weight is already too low. Devil's advocate here: I hypothesize that reducing insulin resistance depends upon a calorie deficit, which is why many diets work for type 2 diabetes, from ultra-low carbohydrate diets to vegan/vegetarian diets. One of my books on diabetes even states that - calorie deficit is necessary. Setting exercise aside for the moment, does the success of the vegan diet with insulin resistance depend on keeping a steady weight loss? Please talk me out of this theory. At 96 lbs, it makes me nervous. I think Dr. Barnard's book is the best explanation - reducing the fat inside the cells is the way to minimize insulin resistance. If weight loss is needed, that's important too, and goes hand in hand with reducing the fat in the cells. But, if weight loss is not needed, just keeping the level of fat under control can help with insulin resistance. All this keeping in mind that there are other factors involved in diabetes (genetic, immunological, etc). --Deb R
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Pele Joined: 01/03/11 Posts: 24	RE: Separating out the three goals of vegan eating Posted Friday, January 21, 2011 at 6:11 PM Fat in muscle cells specifically. I kind of wish I could check mine out... see them all gunked up and see what happens after. Apparently DM2 people have adapted to store fat in muscles for use when fats were hard to come by. People who eat the same and don't get DM2 don't have the same genes that hoard to excess. It made sense when we rarely would find enough nuts to sustain ourselves and even back when we were hunters we wouldn't be getting meat all the time. Perhaps in the old times we were the ones who would have lived in times of famine when the people without diabetes might have parished... in that case it would have been a useful adaptation. Now that we have fat in abundance our cells fill up, it's never used and it clogs up the insulin and glucose receptors communication and the muscle cells starve of glucose becuase it's never getting processed by these cells that are full and are basically paralized drowning in fat. An ultra low fat diet (~20g daily) is designed to trigger the muscle cells to use up their reserves in the cells. Even if you are underweight and you're getting enough fat to signal to your body that you're in a fat abundance period your muscles won't burn the fat it's hoarded. Ultra low fat says we're in a short fall burn he reserves... cells clean out and sugars are processed more naturally. Underweight type 2 diabetics are "skinny fat"... my grandmother is one of these. She looks frail and under weight but It's painfully obvious she's probably one of these types by just how much fat that skinny lady packs in... not a lot of food but it's really high fat and it's just not keeping up with the calorie amount she needs to gain weight as stored fat but is still enough fat to trigger the muscles to hoard fat and her DM2 is getting worse.
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Susan Levin Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1188	RE: Separating out the three goals of vegan eating Posted Friday, January 21, 2011 at 9:05 PM I recruited PCRM's Director of Diabetes Education and Care to offer her expertise. Here is what she wrote: It is possible to be insulin resistant and thin. This is not the common scenario in the U.S., but I am aware of research that has found that in people with a family history of diabetes, insulin resistance may occur even at normal body mass index (BMI). Interestingly, in countries outside of the U.S., where diabetes rates are increasing, it is not uncommon to find type 2 diabetes in people who are not heavy by U.S. standards. I'm referring to China, and Micronesia, where I have seen this first hand. One treatment for insulin resistance is reducing total dietary fat and specifically saturated fat intake. This can mean taking in fewer calories and seeing further weight loss if you are not careful to increase calories from saturated-fat-free sources, such as grains and beans. That said, if an individual is underweight and blood sugar levels are elevated, it is important to assess first for decreased production of insulin (as in type 1 diabetes or long-duration type 2 diabetes, or in something in-between, sometimes called type 1.5). A lab test measuring insulin or c-peptide levels can determine if insufficient insulin is being produced. A low-fat plant-based diet is still healthful to help protect against heart disease, kidney disease, certain cancers and other chronic conditions, but the only way to treat insufficient insulin production is with insulin injections. The other underlying question is should someone with diabetes who is quite thin shift to a plant-based diet without the risk of further weight loss? In general, a well-planned plant based diet provides plenty of nutrients. You may want to consume larger quantities of beans and grains to get enough calories, as fruits and vegetables are relatively low in calories. Nuts and seeds make sense too, but when trying to watch total fat in someone who may be insulin resistance, excess fat intake can be problematic, so keep it to about a handful a day. Those who are thin and consume enough vegan calories do not need to fear that weight loss will continue endlessly. This is general advice, and I would encourage a consultation with a dietitian who has expertise in plant-based nutrition and a clinician who can sort out, if you are experiencing high blood sugars, if it is because your body is making too little insulin. You might also enjoy reading registered dietitian and leading vegan nutrition authority Brenda Davis' book, Becoming Vegan. This book focuses on planning nutritious vegan meals, and addresses issues of underweight and overweight. Please keep us posted. Caroline Trapp, MSN, APRN, BC-ADM, CDE PCRM Director of Diabetes Education and Care Susan Levin, MS, RD PCRM Director of Nutrition Education
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Checochinican Joined: 01/04/11 Posts: 148	RE: Separating out the three goals of vegan eating Posted Monday, January 24, 2011 at 11:46 AM Fantastic replies! Thanks a ton for all these comments/information. Yes, it does (finally!) make sense to me that very low fat in the diet will work, regardless of whether there is a calorie deficit. I'll keep that in mind. I've not been careful enough to actually count fat grams and no doubt have let them get too high. Even though I've stayed vegan, some of my foods have contained too much fat per serving (like non-dairy "ice cream"), soy-based cheese, probably some others. Back to my vegan program. I am much encouraged.
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