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| Forums: September 2010 Kickstart Forum Archive: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings | |||
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| drflora3rd
Joined: 09/05/10 Posts: 27 |
Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 2:53 PM When you ask Alicia to take all of the oil out, you will be protecting the cancer and heart patients, not being an 'accomplice in a crime'. This is such a major responsibility and people all over the world are looking at you to lead them. This is being translated into every major language in the world. What you say will be repeated in little villages without computers, and talked about in palaces, brought to dying patients in hospitals and homes. We have to get it right and not compromise. We have to step right in and stand for something, not wimp out just because they are a celebrity. She will respect you more because you are an authority now and you, fortunately or unfortunately, have to speak for all of us who have learned some things about disease prevention. Be brave. You can even blame it on me and Dr. Esselstyn if you wish! No oils for PCRM recipes or those on our sites. Please check with Neal. I'm sure he'd want the best for the followers. Who knows, it may save someone's life who has not identified themselves as a cancer or heart patient who is reading your recipes. Peaceand lovebe with you ---------- Original Message ----------
Thanks and good to hear from you. We have allowed the celebrity recipes to be an exception to our rule, but we advise people to modify the recipes to make them low in fat. The 21 Day menu that we recommend for people to follow is almost void of all oil. Thank you for your concern, I am taking notes as we go along of comments and we will reevaluate this evolving program. |
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| Lauren1213
Joined: 09/06/10 Location: Florida Posts: 57 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 3:44 PM Okay, please excuse my bluntness, but which way are we really supposed to go...some added oil or no added oil? The 1'st day lunch and dinner recipes each have a tablespoon of oil in them, which we would be eating also as leftovers, increasing our total days with added oil. The 2'nd days dinner recipe has a teaspoon of oil in it. Just speaking for myself, if Dr. Barnard tells us that cooking with added oils is bad for our health, and I trust him that it will help me with my heart health, etc, then I am not going to cook with oils. And if Dr. Barnard tells us that we need to add certain oils into our diets to better our health, then so be it. Although that's not the impression I got from reading his book and listening to his PBS special. I'm saying that if we trust Dr. Barnard and the documented research, then those of us who are serious about getting well are going to do what he says. I, like I'm sure many of us on this plan are, have justifiable concerns about which is the proper way to do this. I am a diabetic, have high-blood pressure, and I'm trying to avoid what waits for me down the road if I don't do things right now. Will it be hard to cook without fats? YES, OF COURSE IT WILL! We've been eating food loaded with fats for most of our lives. But if that's the way to get well, then I am not going to complain, and I am going to buckle down and do what he says. But it's very confusing to have read the book and listened to him, and get one version, then to have recipes on the site with fats added to them that we're supposed to follow in our plan. We need a positive confirmation that "no added oils" in our cooking is what he's saying we need to do. Please, will someone with PCRM/21 Day Vegan Kickstart credentials properly clarify this for all of us that are truly concerned with following this plan properly? After all, if we're not doing it right, it won't work, so why would we even bother? Thank you for taking the time to read this. |
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Wild4Stars
 Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 3:55 PM Here's my thoughts. Not everyone who chooses to go vegan does so because they have existing health problems or are overweight. This is a vegan kickstart, not a diabetes / heart disease reversal program. SO - if you are here to reverse or prevent a disease, then you should follow the guidelines that were given for that program. Use the vegan recipes, omitting the things that need to be omitted for your particular health issue - ie - added oils. Does that make sense? Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| drflora3rd
Joined: 09/05/10 Posts: 27 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 3:57 PM Lauren1213 wrote: Okay, please excuse my bluntness, but which way are we really supposed to go...some added oil or no added oil? The 1'st day lunch and dinner recipes each have a tablespoon of oil in them, which we would be eating also as leftovers, increasing our total days with added oil. The 2'nd days dinner recipe has a teaspoon of oil in it. This is a work in process. We appreciate your email. No oils are recommended. Some of the recipes have slipped by us because this is the first time that anything like this has been done with vegan cooked foods, so please be patient. The book to read is Dr. Esselstyn's "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease" and on page 85, it references a Reverend Valentine of N.C. who had undergone a quintuple coronary bypass. He was carefully following a plant based nutrition program.His weight had fallen from 210 to 156 which he had maintained over the years. But, by mid-2004, he was experiencing a recurrence of angina, especially when he exercised, and sometimes even while resting. He had heard about my (Dr. Esselstyn's) program...and I was initially baffled. At a loss for suggestions, I asked him to tell me, once again, everything he was eating, and to leave out absolutely nothing. This time, he added to the list. He had forgotten, he said, to mention that he was consuming "heart healthy" olive oil at every lunch, dinner and in salads. It was what they call a Eureka moment. Immediately, I advised him to give up the olive oil. He did - and within weeks, his angina had completely disappeared." For further information, there's a whole chapter on why not to include oils. He's at the Cleveland Clinic. Just speaking for myself, if Dr. Barnard tells us that cooking with added oils is bad for our health, and I trust him that it will help me with my heart health, etc, then I am not going to cook with oils. And if Dr. Barnard tells us that we need to add certain oils into our diets to better our health, then so be it. Although that's not the impression I got from reading his book and listening to his PBS special. I'm saying that if we trust Dr. Barnard and the documented research, then those of us who are serious about getting well are going to do what he says. I, like I'm sure many of us on this plan are, have justifiable concerns about which is the proper way to do this. I am a diabetic, have high-blood pressure, and I'm trying to avoid what waits for me down the road if I don't do things right now. Will it be hard to cook without fats? YES, OF COURSE IT WILL! We've been eating food loaded with fats for most of our lives. But if that's the way to get well, then I am not going to complain, and I am going to buckle down and do what he says. But it's very confusing to have read the book and listened to him, and get one version, then to have recipes on the site with fats added to them that we're supposed to follow in our plan. We need a positive confirmation that "no added oils" in our cooking is what he's saying we need to do. Please, will someone with PCRM/21 Day Vegan Kickstart credentials properly clarify this for all of us that are truly concerned with following this plan properly? After all, if we're not doing it right, it won't work, so why would we even bother? Thank you for taking the time to read this. At another place in his book, there are wonderful recipes with no oils also, and colored pictures of arteries clearing out. No high blood pressure with no animal products and no salty oils! We don't want anyone reading our recipes to some day come to us and say that a loved one is dead because they read in our recipes that oils could be used. If you find one that has oils in it, just delete it and notify us. Dr. Flora. My middle name is Mason, and George Mason wrote that all people should have life, liberty, pursuit of happiness and safety, and I and other members of our family continue to try to make sure that everyone is safe. |
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| Wild4Stars
Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 4:02 PM Here's my thoughts. Not everyone who chooses to go vegan does so because they have existing health problems or are overweight. This is a vegan kickstart, not a diabetes / heart disease reversal program. SO - if you are here to reverse or prevent a disease, then you should follow the guidelines that were given for that program. Use the vegan recipes, omitting the things that need to be omitted for your particular health issue - ie - added oils. Does that make sense? Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| drflora3rd
Joined: 09/05/10 Posts: 27 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 4:12 PM Wild4Stars wrote: Here's my thoughts. Not everyone who chooses to go vegan does so because they have existing health problems or are overweight. This is a vegan kickstart, not a diabetes / heart disease reversal program. SO - if you are here to reverse or prevent a disease, then you should follow the guidelines that were given for that program. Use the vegan recipes, omitting the things that need to be omitted for your particular health issue - ie - added oils. If one considers that in the Gulf, our deceased soldiers' autopsies reveal that 90% have hardening of the arteries, and in some conferences, doctors are being told that anyone who eats a S.A.D. diet should be treated as if they have heart disease, who doesn't have an existing health problem? It just hasn't surfaced yet. Why not just cut out the partially hydrogenated, hydrogenated, saturated fat now and prevent that? It's all a choice. Would you rather be safe than sorry? Oils do not carry an electical current like the rest of the salad. Even bugs won't eat it. If it doesn't have the life force in it, chi energy the orientals call it, why eat an oil like that? Why not eat some avocado, dulse or kelp, or some walnuts, pinenuts, almonds or filberts or know that you get all of your essential fatty acids in a vegan diet already? If you are living in an a/c environment and are cold all day long, even at the gym, you will crave oil. Get someplace where you can sweat and that craving for oil will leave.Does that make sense? Remember one spoon of oil will dissolve the lining of your arteries and begin the process of heart disease, as the fat and other things like cholesterol go under the surface and then the body's defense, the white blood cells have to sacrifice their lives to gobble up the oil/cholesterol and then they turn into the foam cells that begin cancer. Every spoon you eat, just one spoonful, Dr. Esselstyn writes and says in his speeches, does such irreversible damage that if we knew about it, we would never use any more. A word to the wise is sufficient. |
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| Wild4Stars
Location: Florida Posts: 832 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM drflora3rd - I have a question. Are you a member of the PCRM or 21-Day Vegan Kickstart staff? You sound so informed I'm just wondering if you are a participant or a moderator. Vikki ~ Wild4Stars@gmail.com |
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| drflora3rd
Joined: 09/05/10 Posts: 27 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 8:19 PM Wild4Stars wrote: drflora3rd - I have a question. Are you a member of the PCRM or 21-Day Vegan Kickstart staff? You sound so informed I'm just wondering if you are a participant or a moderator. I've been a member for decades. As I approach my 75th year, I'm doing all I can to spread the word of what PCRM is doing here in South Miami-Dade and in Virginia and other places where I teach, lecture and demonstrate, like the RawSpirit Festivals.I am not on the Kickstart staff. I just encourage them to be brave and teach with integrity and courage what we know is going to keep our friends well. Sort of the conscience of the vegan movement! That does not mean that I am perfect, either. I struggle with food addictions just like everyone. Will not even drive by a McDonalds because the french fries smell so good, even after all this time, and I know I will never have any again because I've already had two heart attacks (and my arteries are clean and healthy now, after hard work and the grace od God to have worked with Dr. Ann Wigmore, who taught thousands how to heal themselves with vegan foods. Now, Dr. Barnard does. I've lost a daughter to cancer (when I went to her funeral, her fridge was full of the deadly cheese, yogurt and milk), and I have a son struggling with addictions to meat who has diabetes. So, we all are trying to help one another stay on a wellness path. Dr. Barnard is giving everyone a chance to learn to stay well and to get well. |
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| Susan Levin
Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1192 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 11:04 PM I appreciate your input Dr. Flora. The Kickstart program is not necessarily as strict as Dr. Esselstyn's. Although, we do give him his day - he is one of our Kickstart coaches, a PCRM advisory board member, and a dear friend. He will address heart disease on his day. It's great if people can get away from the oils and fats. We select recipes that fall within our guidelines of less than 3 grams of fat per serving. Our celebrity recipes are their own. We don't expect them to alter their recipes for this program. More importantly, however, I hope we provide Kickstarters the tools to alter any recipe on their own will with their new-found knowledge. Susan Levin, MS, RD |
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| drflora3rd
Joined: 09/05/10 Posts: 27 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 11:22 PM "It's great if people can get away from the oils and fats" I don't think any of us would want to get away from all fats. You and I know that many fats are good fats and that a plant-based diet has all of the fats we need. Not having any fats would be impossible on a plant-based diet. No fats on any diet would be unhealthy. It's just that we need to be consistent, no? As Victoria says, if we consistently do things that harm us, we don't love ourselves. Please read what she has to say about that and please reconsider that if we promote something that we know is harmful, we have a very large responsibility for liability in the future. Every recipe that comes from PCRM needs to be safe. If it contains clarified oil, it's not safe. These people trust PCRM not to let them down in this area of integrity. We must not compartmentalize this just to heart disese; because it has to do with cancer and with other diseases and inflammatory problems as well. Don't you agree? Any food that will not transmit oxygen is dangerous for us. |
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| MommaLuna
Joined: 08/31/10 Posts: 35 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 11:28 PM This is my third kickstart and I've learned so much with the first two. I've learned that water usually can take the place of the oil so that is what I do now. I just replace the oil with water to keep the moisture level the same. I've made three recipes for this kickstart and omitted the oil in the two that had some. The foods are delicious without them. And I really think I'm helping my heart and circulatory system by eliminating them. |
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| drflora3rd
Joined: 09/05/10 Posts: 27 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Monday, September 6, 2010 at 11:29 PM "Any time we ... eat something we know to be harmful (clarfified oil), we’re mistreating ourselves. When we do (this)repeatedly (eating oils), we establish a self-destructive and self-defeating pattern." That is what Victoris wrote. |
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| nan0863
Joined: 09/06/10 Posts: 8 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Tuesday, September 7, 2010 at 6:52 AM I am joining the 21 day kickstart to challenge myself to become a vegan. I am not doing it for any other reasons, simply to remove animals from my diet. I suspect many others joined for the same reason. The kind of bickering and lecturing going back and forth about oil seems out of place for this challenge and frankly makes me less interested in being a part of this challenge. If you have your own reasons for not using oils, maybe that should be under a 21 day oil free challenge. For me and others: vegan (a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy products) |
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| agie
Joined: 09/06/10 Posts: 27 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Tuesday, September 7, 2010 at 11:06 AM I can eliminate oil for the majority of the time and I try to follow the 3g per serving rule. The one issue that I always have a problem with is sauteing and roasting. How do we get away without using oil? I know that Dr. Fuhrman recommends water sauteing but the veggies turn out soft and gross. What does everyone suggest in place of oil for these cooking techniques? |
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| drflora3rd
Joined: 09/05/10 Posts: 27 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Tuesday, September 7, 2010 at 12:12 PM A ceramic steam collander is great. |
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| Lauren1213
Joined: 09/06/10 Location: Florida Posts: 57 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Tuesday, September 7, 2010 at 2:23 PM "Here's my thoughts. Not everyone who chooses to go vegan does so because they have existing health problems or are overweight. This is a vegan kickstart, not a diabetes / heart disease reversal program. SO - if you are here to reverse or prevent a disease, then you should follow the guidelines that were given for that program. Use the vegan recipes, omitting the things that need to be omitted for your particular health issue - ie - added oils. Does that make sense?"
Not being a professional, I don't have a clue how much or what kind of oils that are essential for the proper functioning of our bodies. Contrary to one of the posters, my intent for directly questioning was in no way meant to be perceived as bickering, but I was trying to ascertain the correct way to follow the plan since I am in the program to help with my health conditions. |
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| drflora3rd
Joined: 09/05/10 Posts: 27 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Tuesday, September 7, 2010 at 2:33 PM There are essential fats, but no essential clarified oils. We get all the essential fats we need in a vegan diet without added oils. You will be actually ahead of the wellness game just by leaving out the added oils and sticking with the whole fats that are already in the vegan foods. When you get to Dr. Esselstyn's information and his book, you will understand better why clarified oils are not good, not just not heart healthy, but not cell healthy. |
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| redtopsissy
Joined: 08/26/10 Location: Fort White, Florida Posts: 47 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Tuesday, September 7, 2010 at 6:04 PM I would like to thank each of you. This "discussion" has allowed me to think, investigate, and conclude. That's perfection...Elizabeth Elizabeth |
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| Jason
Joined: 09/07/10 Posts: 1 |
RE: Concerning the dangers of oil in dressings Posted Tuesday, September 7, 2010 at 11:24 PM Wild4Stars wrote: This is a vegan kickstart, not a diabetes / heart disease reversal program. SO - if you are here to reverse or prevent a disease, then you should follow the guidelines that were given for that program. Use the vegan recipes, omitting the things that need to be omitted for your particular health issue - ie - added oils. Does that make sense? Its all very well saying this here on on this forum but what about the 65,000 + people who are on the kickback programme who are making all the effort to go vegan, possibly all of which have some kind of ailment they are looking to rid themselves of? PCRM need to be clear. |
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