Forums: January 2010 Kickstart Forum Archive: Soy
Created on: 01/05/10 01:27 PM Views: 2917 Replies: 15
rsternberg Joined: 01/05/10 Posts: 6	Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 1:27 PM I love the vegan diet except for all of the soy. Soy as I understand it is a mild form of estrogen - not good for those of us trying to address Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (for which many recommendations suggest you eat a high-protein, low/no soy diet) or fertility issues. Any information on how much soy is appropriate (I think vegans eat way too much) for women of fertile age?
	Edited 01/05/10 1:36 PM Quote | Send PM | Link | Top | Bottom
shanna Joined: 12/30/09 Posts: 287	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 1:41 PM soy does not contain estrogen. alas, this is a persistent rumor. (it also will not make you gay, or feminize young men. all of those anti-soy rumors are ridiculous.) there are phytonutrients in soy that can mimic the function of estrogen, but this action is thought to be more beneficial than harmful. take a look at the FAQ page on soy, under RESOURCES on this site. here is the link: http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/soy_health.html basically the idea is to use soy as one component of a healthy, varied, low-fat vegan diet, focusing on less processed forms of soy like edamame, tofu, tempeh and soymilk, with less (if any) highly processed things with soy protein isolate, etc. there was previously a common recommendation for breast cancer survivors with estrogen-sensitive cancers to limit (but not totally avoid) soy, but i think even that is changing. my mother is a breast cancer survivor (just last may) and her docs say she is fine with a little soy in her diet, but just not to base her diet on soy. here is a very recent article (dec 16) from a source i trust (dr. joel fuhrman's disease proof blog, which sites the study they summarize): http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/breast-cancer-for-breast-cancer-survivors-soy-is-protective-and-alcohol-is-harmful.html and i haven't really seen too many recipes that are part of the plan that emphasize soy. those that call for soymilk can easily be adapted to another plant-based milk. it's pretty easy to avoid if you'd still like to do that. it's just one of many beans. hope that helps.
	Edited 01/05/10 1:42 PM Quote | Send PM | Link | Top | Bottom
rsternberg Joined: 01/05/10 Posts: 6	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 1:53 PM Thank you. Yes, we use almond milk for that reason - but all the fake meats, tofu, tempeh and other soy products seem like too much of one bean (everything in moderation...). We try to stick to vegetable recipes without soy but it does limit your options in an already restrictive diet. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts...
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ZenBohemian Joined: 01/05/10 Posts: 10	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 2:07 PM I think the main problem with soy is if you have it too frequently. It's a common allergy and some vegetarians who consumed soy daily for years have developed a sensitivity to it. If you can rotate soy milk with rice, almond, hemp or oat milk and avoid having tofu every day it's probably a good thing. I can probably find a link to the articles I've read on it if you're interested.
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rsternberg Joined: 01/05/10 Posts: 6	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 2:13 PM Seems pretty simple, and thanks. My main concern is fertility - while the PCRM link says it hasn't been shown to be a problem, it does 'act as estrogen' and that can have some effects. In any case, I think I'll still try to limit it but enjoy a tempeh reuben every once in a while : )
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yeaaahtoast Joined: 01/05/10 Location: Honolulu & Los Angeles Posts: 7	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 2:14 PM ZenBohemian wrote: I think the main problem with soy is if you have it too frequently. It's a common allergy and some vegetarians who consumed soy daily for years have developed a sensitivity to it. Totally. As a new vegan, I was all about meat susbstitues and at some kind of them at every meal. Not only did I gain a bit of weight, but felt sluggish sometimes. Getting away from highly-processed soy products (and really ANY product)is always a GOOD thing. I rarely have tofu, but drink soymilk every day either in cereal, tea, coffe, or smoothies. I've actually noticed a mucus reduction since eating less soy (yummy huh?), and have turned to beans for the majority of my protein. ALL HAIL SEITAN!!! www
	Edited 01/05/10 2:15 PM Quote | Send PM | Link | Top | Bottom
ZenBohemian Joined: 01/05/10 Posts: 10	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 2:20 PM I only have a meat substitute once or twice a week (tofu cubes or "chickenless nuggets") but I do have soy milk everyday in my oatmeal and sometimes in a smoothie. I tried having the other non-dairy milks but don't really like them all that much, plus it's more expensive. I worry that if I begin to dislike what I'm eating all the time then I'll fall off the wagon. Once again, it's something I'm hoping to address a bit more once I've got this whole vegan thing down pat.
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Kauai2010 Joined: 01/01/10 Posts: 15	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 8:01 PM I have been using a lot of organic soymilk and tempeh in my diet, alternated with bean soups. I am worried that I am including too much soy in my diet, even though it is organic. What are the symptoms of becoming intolerant or allergic? Sometimes I worry a bit that I am becoming a bit intolerant to soy. One thing I have noticed is one one diet site many of the vegans have a diet that seems to be made up mostly of the prepackaged soyproducts.
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VeganRecipeGuy Joined: 01/03/10 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 131	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 8:04 PM As a food I think most soy products are a little on the "junkie" side. Tofu is fatty and has very little fiber, and the same for the milk. I use it like I used to use meat and milk, as an additive not a meal. Edit: Actually...that isn't always true...I just remembered my Thanksgiving Loaf...but in my defense I added old fashioned oats and processed it...so I added fiber...LOL Still that isn't "every day" food. www
	Edited 01/05/10 8:08 PM Quote | Send PM | Link | Top | Bottom
Susan Levin Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1191	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 8:31 PM I posted this on another soy thread. But some of it may be useful: Soy is in the media a lot and the information can seem rather confusing. That's because research results are mixed on the issue of soy. However, most soy studies are done with megadosed soy extracts rather than natural soy foods. The American Cancer Society states that traditional soy foods are safe for breast cancer survivors. There does not seem to be ANY evidence that consuming minimally processed soy foods poses any harm (soy milk, tofu, edamame or soy bean, miso, tempeh). Recent studies show that soy food consumption during childhood is protective against cancer. In fact, this whole Western trend toward soy started because of the low incidence of breast cancer in countries where high amounts of soy are consumed. A recent study in the Journal of the American Medical Association looked at more than 5000 breast cancer survivors and found that those who consumed the most soy foods (again, minimally processed) had less risk of recurrence and death. Ultimately, of course, soy beans are no more essential to the diet than say lima beans. If someone chooses not to consume soy in any form, then no harm done. I will always encourage, however, people to choose the whole foods option as opposed to the processed option of any food when given the choice. You can also review this factsheet for more studies, http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/pdfs/soy_and_your_health.pdf. I hope this helps. Susan Levin, MS, RD PCRM Director of Nutrition Education
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rsternberg Joined: 01/05/10 Posts: 6	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 8:46 PM Hi Everyone, Thanks for these answers. My question was actually specific to PCOS and female infertility. About 10% of the female population have PCOS. As I understand it, PCOS women are especially sensitive to the thyroid and estrogen-like effects of soy. Seems as if results of studies are inconclusive, and non have been done specifically on this question. Here is a link in case anyone else is interested. http://www.pcosnutrition.com/shownl.php?id=57
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Susan Levin Joined: 12/26/09 Posts: 1191	RE: Soy Posted Tuesday, January 5, 2010 at 9:06 PM rsternberg wrote: Hi Everyone, Thanks for these answers. My question was actually specific to PCOS and female infertility. About 10% of the female population have PCOS. As I understand it, PCOS women are especially sensitive to the thyroid and estrogen-like effects of soy. Seems as if results of studies are inconclusive, and non have been done specifically on this question. Here is a link in case anyone else is interested. http://www.pcosnutrition.com/shownl.php?id=57 I like this source: http://www.pcosnetwork.com/articles/dieting-weightloss/soy-and-pcos-safe-or-harmful/. I think that even with PCOS, you can follow the same previously discussed advice which is to focus on whole soy foods and really limit the foods/supplements that use soy protein isolates, soy extracts, isoflavones, etc. I have seen no evidence that you should fear soybeans, tofu, tempeh, miso, soymilk. BUT, you have to be comfortable with your diet. If you don't want to eat soy, don't. There are so many different whole beans out there and lots of different plant-milks. No problem. Susan Levin, MS, RD PCRM Director of Nutrition Education
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rb Joined: 12/30/09 Posts: 85	RE: Soy Posted Wednesday, January 6, 2010 at 1:53 AM I would also ask your doctor. I have hypothyroidism and was told by mine that the research has been in both directions and is still not conclusive, but that I might not want to overdo it with soy, just in case (not meaning to not have any, but to not overdo it. It wasn't an issue till this diet, because I was using dairy, so I need to figure that part out now).
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tklovesveggies Joined: 12/27/09 Posts: 5	RE: Soy Posted Wednesday, January 6, 2010 at 10:59 AM Hi, I do/did have PCOS. Went through all the "fertility" stuff in my 20's and 30's. Have one daughter (23) with help from clomid. So all the info with PCOS is stuff I dealt with for years without much knowledge out there at the time. I have found with PCOS that we usually also have Insulin Resistance. The white poisons (flour, rice, potates, pasta) are more detrimental to us with IR/PCOS than the soy actually is - in most cases. With the fertility drugs and such - massive weight gain occured for me, but could never drop the weight. Seems by eating the white stuff (yes, that tastes so good!) our body sends it into our system before it reaches the point in our tummies to signal-enough already!! Thus we store it b/c it turns to fat with the overload. I have found so many conflicting info on the soy, that I have decided it's on my list to have seldom and I don't stress when I do have it because I don't have it a lot. I agree wholeheartedly with Susan Levin, in it's natural state as much as possible like Edamame in a salad or as a snack where you are seeing how much you are eating. It's like the white stuff - it's processed and our body has a hard time dealing with it, so goes the processed soy. My personal opinion as one who has had PCOS, have it occasionaly and don't stress about it - the stress will cause more health issues than the soy! Sorry for long post - hope it helps just a little. PCOS is not a new condition, but they are still trying to put their finger on all the little quirks of it. I'm sure you have more info than I did when I was in my 20's and 30's when we couldn't get pregnant. I'm well past that now!
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JenDiggity Joined: 01/02/10 Posts: 10	RE: Soy Posted Wednesday, January 6, 2010 at 11:29 AM I have (had?) PCOS. Going crazy on the soy food when I first went veg prompted a thyroid condition. I was eating it with every meal and trying every soy treat out there. By simply limiting my soy to a few times a week and going on a low fat vegan diet I not only got the thyroid issue under control, but I started having periods again and am now pregnant. I highly recommend reading Dr. Barnard's and Dr. McDougall's books on low-fat diets. Learning what foods make a human body run most efficiently has changed my life.
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richospice Joined: 01/04/10 Posts: 3	RE: Soy Posted Wednesday, January 6, 2010 at 1:04 PM Again I have been a Vegan for 40 plus years. Male and 65 yoa. The male side of my family is riddled with heart disease and early demise. I have eaten tons of tofu and beans, etc. Tofu for me has added body mass but its the concentrated protein I get. I never assume one size fits all. I can sometimes eat a pound of tofu in one sitting and the rest of a breakfast and run most of a day until late afternoon. I love the very firm tofu as it cooks up nicely without the extra water. That may be excessive for others but it works for me. I have had thru the years many women friends and family who seem not to thrive as well on a vegan diet as I have. For what its worth. All the best,Richard
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